Can VSL confirm this, please? Is this reproducible and the cause of long load, connection, switchover to MIXDOWN mode when working with Cubase/Nuendo?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by: Thomas G

Just for information as it might help others.
I also suffered from very long loading times after switching over to iLok. I tried everything, even bought an iLok dongle, nothing helped much. Finally I completely reinstalled iLok License Manager (make sure to completely uninstall first). Don't worry about the licenses as they are safe in the cloud or on the dongle. Now my samples load faster again, feels like same speed as before the switch. Happy again!
I found this by discovering that the PACE licensing Service (task manager windows) was taking quite some CPU during loading, but VEP did not do much, so PACE service somehow blocked the process in some bad state.

Also notice that the longer "PACE licensing Services" is running the slower projects load. So it's good to restart computer or restart the service between loading projects.

I'm running on Windows 11, Cubase 11 and VEP 7.

Hope it can help others!

There are major performance issues when working with larger VEPro 7.1.x (iLok) projects in Cubase and Nuendo right now, and of course once a project is saved you can’t roll back to the earlier VEPro version.

Is there any news on a fix for this? I know VSL considers this a third party issue - presumably referring to Steinberg(?). However, the problem only appears if you upgrade from VEPro 7.0.x to 7.1.x without changing anything else in the setup, so it looks very much like regression to a problem working with VEPro that existed two years ago and was fixed by an update to VEPro 7.0.x back then.

The performance issues are:

Extremely slow connection to VEPro instances (I tested with pared-down project of 128 instances decoupled with a Kontakt instrument inside each instance. VEPro 7.0.1113 connects to all instances in approx 12 seconds and VEPro 7.1.x takes 5 minutes 23 seconds.)

Extremely slow switchover to MIXDOWN mode to do an offline bounce (With the same pared-down test project VEPro 7.0.1113 takes <10 seconds to switchover and begin the bounce. VEPro 7.1.x takes 2 minutes 14 seconds to begin the bounce and another 2 minutes 14 seconds at the end of the bounce to come out of MIXDOWN mode.)

With this second problem, batch offline bounce and batch export events is basically unusable as the switchover to MIXDOWN mode and back happens with every event that’s rendered.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by: jshamon

Hi everyone,

I have a PC, 16 core, 256MB RAM (that is my max on this motherboard)-  2 years old PC

Now the only way i can load up VEPro7 instances quickly, if they are few of them 2,3 or 4 with fewer channels, the more i add the slower it gets to load up the whole session of VEPro7.

for instance, I have a template about 18 instances, some of them with 50 channels, and some at least 16 channels, this one takes about 60 minutes to 90 minutes to load,

Is there a way that I can improve this? because this is instance.

Thanks

-John

Hi John - 

Have you tried adding all of the file types used to the exclusions list in Windows Security? I found on my PC that Windows was doing a realtime check for viruses etc on every file loaded(?) I think.

In Windows Security / Virus & Threat Protection / Exclusions I added the program VEPro and all file types I use (which includes .vivolume for VSL libraries) to the exclusions list and everything loads much, much faster. 

Maybe try this if you haven't already. Probably need to do a restart after changing the settings(?).

Hope that helps.

Graham

Yes. And among the perfect storm of new operating systems, new chipset on Apple, and switching to iLok. Yikes! It's a lot to juggle.

Hi Guin - 

Yes - the problem is particularly bad when working with Cubase and the latest VEPro. 

If you're not already... to get faster saves maybe check out "decoupled" mode of VEPro. If you use that, a project save in Cubase or any DAW will be much quicker. You just have to remember to save the VEPro server project separately and load that up before opening your Cubase project.

But even the connection to these decoupled instances is many, many times slower than it was with the eLicenser version. 

Personally I've rolled back to the eLicenser version as the iLok version is currently unusable for me.

The performance issues when working with VEPro iLok and Cubase/Nuendo:

Extremely slow connection to VEPro instances (I tested with pared-down project of 128 instances decoupled with a Kontakt instrument inside each instance. VEPro 7.0.1113 connects to all instances in approx 12 seconds and VEPro 7.1.x takes 5 minutes 23 seconds.)

Extremely slow switchover to MIXDOWN mode to do an offline bounce (With the same pared-down test project VEPro 7.0.1113 takes <10 seconds to switchover and begin the bounce. VEPro 7.1.x takes 2 minutes 14 seconds to begin the bounce and another 2 minutes 14 seconds at the end of the bounce to come out of MIXDOWN mode.)

With this second problem, batch offline bounce and batch export events is basically unusable as the switchover to MIXDOWN mode and back happens with every event that’s rendered.

The above are pared-down test projects. With a real-world project I'm working on, the problems are worse as there are more instances. 

VSL are aware of the issue but it is not a priority for them to fix as it might be a third party issue (they mean Steinberg I assume?). But that's a bit hard to swallow as this problem was introduced with the change to the latest iLok version of VEPro without changing any other part of the setup.

I might be wrong but this appears to be a regression of a problem that was fixed in an earlier version as the exact same issues were present and then fixed in a VEPro release. https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t52574--SOLVED--Cubase-10-Super-Long-Load-and-Close-Times-VE-PRO-7

Anyway - hopefully VSL will read your message and it will help increase the priority to fix it as it indicates that it's not just a single user with the issue. 

Originally Posted by: jsg

Originally Posted by: santamorphic

Originally Posted by: jsg

Has anyone tried using it without Apple's Bonjour? Thanks, Jerry

Hi Jerry - Did you get an answer to this? I'm wondering the same as I am getting audio dropouts around the time I can see a bunch of Errors in the Windows Event Viewer saying: "Excessive update rate for [comupter name]._vepro._tcp.local.; delaying announcement by 1 second" Doesn't look pretty. And it sounds awful and mucks up workflow. Graham

Hello Graham, Yes, though VE Pro 6 works fine without Bonjour, VE Pro 7 requires it. I too was getting an error message when I tried using VE Pro 7 without it but I think it was a different error message. Best, Jerry

Ah. Ok. Thanks Jerry!

Originally Posted by: jsg

Has anyone tried using it without Apple's Bonjour?

Thanks,

Jerry

Hi Jerry - 

Did you get an answer to this? I'm wondering the same as I am getting audio dropouts around the time I can see a bunch of Errors in the Windows Event Viewer saying:

"Excessive update rate for [comupter name]._vepro._tcp.local.; delaying announcement by 1 second"

Doesn't look pretty. And it sounds awful and mucks up workflow.

Graham

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi, 

We're on 7.1.1245 since today. 

Please refresh or restart your Vienna Assistant to get the latest update!

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul - 

I've updated to 7.1.1245 but this hasn't made a difference. It's behaving like it did before that fix was made a couple of years ago - so it's taking horrendously long to load projects. There's also a, presumably related, problem with offline bounce. It takes ages to switch from normal playback mode to MIXDOWN mode. I just timed an offline bounce and it took 4mins50seconds to begin the bounce while Cubendo waits for VEPro. It then also takes the same time again at the end of the export while waiting for VEPro to switch back out of MIXDOWN mode to normal playback.

This is a real time-killer right now. 

Thanks for your help.

Graham

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi, 

We're on 7.1.1245 since today. 

Please refresh or restart your Vienna Assistant to get the latest update!

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul - nope. Sadly an uninstall of the VEPro via VA and then a fresh install via VA only installed the surround version of the VEPro VST3 on Mac.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi, 

We're on 7.1.1245 since today. 

Please refresh or restart your Vienna Assistant to get the latest update!

Best, 
Paul

I tried updating via VA on Mac but it seems to have removed the VEPro VST3 plugin completely in the silent install. Windows server side went ok. I'll try uninstalling and re-installing. 

This problem has come back in 7.1.1239! Aargh!

Is anyone else also experiencing super-long load times an hangs when doing an export from the DAW?

Thanks.

I'm assuming VEP7 would stay on Rosetta and VEP8 would be the software to make native. Seems like a heck of a lot of work to have to do it fro VEP7 when VEP8 is probably on the horizon. It would also be a little nudge to encourage an upgrade :-)

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Originally Posted by: santamorphic

Hi - Please could you send me the solution too. MIR Pro is crashing from Nuendo too. Also on Monterey 12.2.1. Thanks!

-> ! :-)

Yes - absolutely. I have sent a message to support. Thanks. Important to others to see it's not just a Logic issue.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi guys, 

I think we have a solution there. Please contact us to give it a go:

Best,
Paul

Hi - Please could you send me the solution too. MIR Pro is crashing from Nuendo too. Also on Monterey 12.2.1. Thanks!

Aha! That would explain it. Thanks Bill

Has anyone managed to get Kontakt 6.6 VST3 to scan and work in VEP7?

It's not seen by VEP here on Windows 10.

Cool. Thank you both for taking the time to share your best practices. Cheers!

Hi - 

Has anyone found which is the best option overall when using VEPro as a server on a separate machine to your DAW?

A. Many instances (tabs) of VEPro with say just a single Kontakt plugin instance inside and just the main return to the DAW (maybe 120 VEPro instance?)?

or,

B. Fewer instances of VEPro with multiple (up to 16) Kontakt plugin instances inside each with 16 stereo returns back to the DAW?

I've been doing B for some years but hear that some people put a single instrument on each VEPro instance(???).

Thanks!

Originally Posted by: casalena

Just an update - I built the same exact template with VE 6 and it loads more than 70% faster.  Even in standlaone.  Loading plugins, even moving buses or channels around takes forever.  Engaging 32 outputs in cubase took over a minute, with VE6 took 10 seconds.  It's pretty bad.

That would be in line with the earler automation lanes post. I will be going back to VEPro 6 for my next project.

Hi - 

VEPro servers on the network do not show up in the plugin for selection in my network.

For VEPro I use a dedicated point-to-point ethernet connection with no switch and fixed IP addresses for the two machines. There is no DHCP on that 'network'. All visible if I instead use my 'internet' network with DHCP instead. 

Should I still expect to see the instances even with just a point-to-point cable?

Both DAW machine (OSX) and VEPro machine (Win10) have two ethernet cards, one for 'internet' and one for VEPro. On the VEPro machine the 'internet' card is disabled when not downloading stuff.

Thanks.

From another user:

"The issue is they added a ton of automation lanes to VE Pro that means cubase auto creates all these auto lanes per return lane from an instance. So say you have 130 return stereo lanes, each one in the Cubase mixer now creates 20 auto lanes too. So now you have the Cubase mixer trying to create 2,860 mixer lanes every time it tries to open a session instead of 130. And there's no way around this with the VST3 standard -- if the plugin presents auto lanes they will be created in the DAW mixer."

Out of interest, is anyone having these issues _not_ using Cubase/Nuendo?

Originally Posted by: magnumpraw

I have experienced the same issue on Cubase 10/Mojave (Main DAW) and W10 (slave comps)

My template has my 6 slave VEPro instaces saved in a Freeze state (this is for various workflow reasons).

When I unfreeze an instance, VEP6 only takes a couple seconds to unfreeze and connect to the slave comp.

VEP7 takes over 5 mins!!! It is also much slower when refreezing that instance in a project.

I had to just revert to VEP6 on all my computers for now. Hoping this gets resolved.

Hi magnumpraw - 

It's a drag huh. Did you have any issues moving back to VEP6 with projects saved in 7?

Thanks!

Thanks for the reply.

Hmm - I wonder if it's a Windows defender thing maybe scanning remote calls if that's even a thing. Or maybe a paging or caching thing - don't know. Strange to see the slave machine CPU drop to just OS level during that 'hang' period.

So frustrating. If I find a solution I'll post it.