Originally Posted by: Bill

In the VI version, matracies from I, II and III could be combined into a single instruemnt. I assume that's not posible with the Synchron player is it?

Totally possible... and that's what I've done.  For example I have a dimension labeled "mute" which expends out into sub dimensions with all the necessary articulations.  For the Sul Tasto bowings, I've inserted them into "shorts" "longs" "legato" etc.

Here's a tip too when customizing: I've had some pretty awesome results by blending the portamento and normal legatos into a crossfaded dimension.. sometimes, depending on the velocity there's a little phasey thing going on, but more often than not it is a really smooth effect for certain musical requirements.

It's not with close mics, but the Tchaikovsky demo I made has a ton of repeated notes.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Concert_D#!Demos

My view is that you need everything... the only issue with the VI Series strings compared to the libraries recorded with 10+ mic positions is the tonal realism.  

I feel like the ultimate combination (if they decide to do it) would be the Synchronized Dimension Strings combined with Synchron Strings I, and then maybe a Synchron Strings II with some additional articulations (detache, a super slow/soft legato, harmonics, col lengo, portamento).

With VI Orchestral Strings alone, compared to SyStrings, you just don't get quite as much depth of tone/sound.  PLUS with multiple mic positions, you can treat the sound with different FX (some saturation, pulling a little more harmonic content, etc).  Great for a mixer!

This whole thread was incredibly useful!  Thank you Dietz and Dewdman.

For me, I use Start, Velocity Xfade, Expression, Slot Xfade, and Legato Blur.  And depending on how much tweeking, you might also consider Humanize and the Filter as well.

I agree pretty much with everything mohsohsenshi said.

One thing I'd note about a laptop as a master: if it is streaming a LOT of midi data all at once, even at higher latencies, you will get some clicks/pops.

For example, if I load all of the mic positions for the Yamaha CFX, and I'm playing one of my virtuosic piano arrangements (might hit 2,000 voices of polyphony in some bars) it will totally crap out.  My PC slave is totally fine, but the laptop/Logic can't handle it.

At some point I'll need to get a better master machine... so perhaps consider that!

My wishlist....

If VSL decides to do a Synchron Brass, it would be interesting to see if they would do it "dimension" style... 4+4+3+1(b. tromb)+1(tuba).  Or if they go with 6 horns... or Mahler size of 8.  Would they add a piccolo trumpet?  Would be neat!

Based on that above video I believe, and I may be wrong, that VSL is normally partial to the dark european sound of the rotary valve trumpets... so it may not be with these instruments.

Off the top of my head, the standard symphonic literature is a high concert D (Bartok concerto for orchestra, Bernstein Kaddish Symphony...).  I can say that recording a high D over and over for a sample library would be miserable for most players... sure, there are your 1st call guys, but still not pleasant.  But, that would help with those folks who had complaints about the regular Dimension Brass range.

Then, with a brass library, you consider the mutes.  I would like to see a handful of articulations with straight mute, and then a handful with harmon mute.  Same if they do a piccolo trumpet.  The icy orchestration of Petruska's ghost from the Stravinsky ballet calls for muted piccolo trumpet... it's a GREAT effect!

Trombones should have all possible glissandi at different speeds AND fluttered tounged in addition to regular.

For the legatos, there should be pure slur, but then also an option for very light tounge that is used to kind of just bump the air a little bit when landing on the next note.  Needs to be a soft bump thought!

On tone, I would like the engineer/producer to really capture the ones that have a more open sound compared to the other brass libraries... more "ohh" in quality.  Sometimes, the sound can air on the side of "eee."

Then, a little vibrato control!

Lastly, and I'm not even sure this is possible, but  "bells up above the stand" articulations (a couple longs, and a couple shorts)... just for that extra epic Mahlerian blasting. 

Originally Posted by: jasensmith

However, one thing I haven't figured out is what's the difference between the start offset in Legato mode and legato blur?  

Legato Blur basically turns up the "volume" of the transition, whereas the Start Offset actually cuts into the sample.

So, in the advanced tab of VIpro's advanced view (the little tab right by edit and stretch) you will have an option for "Start Offset Mode."  Try selecting "leg" in that menu, and then fiddle with the "Start Offset" ms and the "Start Offset Attack" ms.

The "Start" fader located by the "attack" fader can then be used to control how much of that "Start Offset" effects the legato transition between notes.  

With the right settings, and each instrument/passage is different, you can remove that "harsh" or unmusical transition from note to note.

A number of users make multiple legato patches out of the stock legato articulation for each instrument... and each one may have a different Start Offset Mode to be triggered from repetations, the first note only, or even all.

Also by having multiple edited legato patches, different tuning/humanize settings will also help the performance "glide" from note to note in a much more convincing way.

I would begin your experiments with a string portamento, as it is the most obvious to hear when messing with the Start Offset.

Lastly, if you have an adagio passage of whole notes, save yourself the time and energy and do NOT use the legato articulations.... use the sustains and mess with attack/release.

If you watched the Smart Spheres DEMO I did, here are the EQ changes I made to different parts of the keyboard on the 274-D Synchron Piano (see attachment).  This preset is probably a good starting point as well for a "concert" setting for that piano.

For those interested in hearing a new Synchron D-274 demo, see here:

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Concert_D#!Demos

It is a ridiculously difficult arrangement by Pletnev of the March from the Nutcracker ballet performed and mixed by me.  I love this piano!  Notice how in a certain velocity range during the trumpet theme how that final note this piano has sort of a forte-piano (fp) sound on that e minor chord, because I'm landing in a certain velocity range... that's a tonal/dynamic characteristic not found in other libraries (or on most real pianos to be honest... you won't find it on these banged-out/stretched-out C7s in the LA/Nashville studios.. lol).

...and if you're not familiar with Pletnev, check his performances out on Youtube.  He's a legend!

Also, this passage could be difficult for an ensemble to pull off.

Have you considered different inversions of the chord so you can make use of some open strings?  in G minor, you get two!

One other solution, since the passage appears to be an arpeggio...

Check out some of the paterns in the MIDI Sequencer of VI pro.  Often, there are switches between articulations that give it a more realistic feel.

AND pay attention to the ends of the notes plus the space in between each note.  You can sometimes fiddle with the 'release' slider.

Finally, you can affect the color of the sound (depending on what is really going on with the rest of the music) with the 'filter' slider.

Originally Posted by: William

Steven, yes actually I realized I had heard something of yours after writing that. Excellent work though I'm sure you don't care what I think.  

Just having a little fun, and never missing an opportunity for a little shameless self promotion  But thank you very much! 

Originally Posted by: William

Somehow I never hear any music by them.

Allow me to flex. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VdWcNWQQlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz2Q3kNsIIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBn5yVYG96k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QisezFa_oUU

If the suggestions in this were implemented, I would say they would have the following direct musical benefits:

• Better "out of the box" sound requiring less EQ to fix the noise.
• Better playability requiring fewer adjustments to the MIDI after a performance.
• For film scoring, piano parts tend to air on the soft side (the opposite of the current curve)... could be more inspirational for composers!

Granted, this is what *I* would do.  If none of these are implemented, then I certainly have workarounds and handy "save presets" options once I get it dialed in how I like it.   I have a feeling though VSL will introduce a curve... they're really good about listening to their customers when they have reasonable requests.

Originally Posted by: C.B.

I have the same issue (annoying key noise on some release notes).The noise is more audible when playing softly (final chord of a soft piece, for example). It reminds me the noise of a silent piano.

The Steinway is beautiful but I agree that hammers are too hard (at least, compared to then my own 205 cm grand piano). It is not easy to produce a «muffled» sound with that software intrument.

Best,

C.

Here is my solution thus far that may be acceptable in crafting a better sound...

Turn up Dynamic to around 120 (maybe more?) and turn down MIDI Sensitivity to around -20.

Also, go to the edit page and take the upper half of the keyboard and put an EQ shelf below 200hz... (or get the bell curves so you can keep a little bit of the piano "body" below 70hz) that helps reduce all that noise, yet on the lower half of the keyboad you can preserve the low end.

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh

I would like to 2nd this observation... and think to a small extent, the CFX could use a tweak fixing the bias towards the fortissimo and fortississimo as well.  It is a timbral issue, agreed.

For the harshest of tone, only the very top velocities should be reserved for it.  (Sort of like "harsh" shorts on the Synchron strings)  For the almost-top velocities, I feel there should be a gradual timbral curve.  But as of now, if I'm in the upper 1/3, it's all pretty "loud" timbrally.

One other thing.... I sent a file over to VSL about the keynoise on the Steinway, which to my ears is really loud, causing a whole lot of noise/mud in the 75-184hz range.  If this is adjustable in the sample, then perhaps that would alleviate some of the preceived timbral "bias" towards FFF.  Maybe? 

Originally Posted by: karvala

it's the timbral mapping that's heavily skewed in favour of fff.

I would like to 2nd this observation... and think to a small extent, the CFX could use a tweak fixing the bias towards the fortissimo and fortississimo as well.  It is a timbral issue, agreed.

For the harshest of tone, only the very top velocities should be reserved for it.  (Sort of like "harsh" shorts on the Synchron strings)  For the almost-top velocities, I feel there should be a gradual timbral curve.  But as of now, if I'm in the upper 1/3, it's all pretty "loud" timbrally.

Same here!

Originally Posted by: herb

You can perform the alternations at any tempo, it's just about the gaps between the notes, in a slower tempo the gaps may become to large therefor the player triggers starting notes (where two alternating variations are available). Just take care about the gaps between the notes, minimize them if necessary, and you will trigger the "performance repetitions" (8 variations).

best
Herb

Hi Herb!

I think it would be VERY helpful if in the manual there was some coverage of how to get Synchron how to "behave" based on the MIDI notes themselves.  I remember a past thread where I had asked if legato behavior was affected by touching vs overlap vs long overlap notes.  Or maybe a video tutorial?

Originally Posted by: Bill

I'm surprised this is such a low priority....

Dietz must be prioritizing his paying gigs. ;)

But for what it is worth, I also am very excited to have a MIRx for Synchron.

This is all extremely helpful -- thanks guys

So, the way I've got mine set up is in the VIpro matrix, I have a bunch of articulations.  

I navigate that matrix through keyswitches that are on the lower end of the keyboard (my primary keyoard is a 64-key).  The X axis is white notes, the Y axis is black notes.  I load one instrument, on one channel, and in the performance, I switch articulations through those key switches.  Of course, the keyswitches are outside the range of the instrument.

Then, I have velocity crossfade on, so that no matter what the velocity is, the "loudness" of that articulation is determined by the velocity Xfade CC position (low = soft, high = loud).

Does that kinda make sense?