Oh, OK, I get it. Frankly, I feel a bit silly for not grasping your meaning off the git-go. Clearly overthought it. I have considered doing something like that to help me record myself with MusicMinusOne tracks. You don't have a MIDI file to track along with but you could manually record the click while listening to the track then adjust any click that went a bit rogue to put it right on the sweet spot. Of course, with the same amount of time you could probably memorize every ebb and flow of the accompaniment and just...uh...play the damn thing. But what fun would that be?

There's one in every crowd...

So let me get this straight: You're not looking at a PDF of your notated clarinet and accordian parts on that iPad and making page turns with a foot switch...you're reading your parts off a running MIDI notation track along with your counting track? In Cubase? Sort of "Follow the Bouncing Ball!" ala Mitch Miller? If so, very clever. (If not, help me understand how you're doing it.) This performance also brings up a sticky question: could you foresee yourselves using this approach on a live concert date? Pianist/singers doing a Holiday Inn singles date have been making rhythm track accompaniments since the Casio days, but you legit guys are a different kettle of fish. It would not be without precedent, however. Before the lockdown, I caught a couple of ballet/modern dance shows, one from NYC, one from China. Both danced to prerecorded tracks that took full advantage of the complete sonic liberty that studio production gave them: soundscapes, montages, any type of vocal or instrumental music you can imagine, you name it. Would I have rather heard these folks dance to live musicians? I don't know...most of what they did simply could not be produced by musicians in the pit. It would be a completely different show; apples to oranges. What do you guys think? 

Dave and Becky,

Beautiful performance with a not-bad-at-all-considering-it's-on-the-fly production, to boot! You can trust me on this; I've been involved in a couple of Midnight Studio projects that make your production values here look like a Michael Jackson video! (A story for another time) I'm especially impressed with the way you perform so seamlessly with the virtual quartet, something that I have always found challenging and see myself doing more of in the future. Do you guys have a piano reduction of the quartet part on your music? Of course, this tune doesn't have a pile of tempo changes or rubato patches, but there are some stretches where the strings are resting, aren't there (I'll have to listen again)? Do you have a metronome light pulsing the tempo on your iPad or are the internal clocks in your heads accurate to 1/1,000th of a second?

Again, great performance and thanks for sharing it here. I look forward to your virtual concert on the 27th.

Tom

Fishing out the parts by ear from behind evrything but the kitchen sink? Good grief, that's crazier than I thought it would be! Very cool cue, though. Must have taken more than a few runs to hear everything you did back in "the day". Now remind me again...you do this for pleasure, right? Sort of like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer because it feels so good when you stop? BTW, I really enjoy following your work on the score on your YouTube tracks. Thanks!

Beautiful stuff, Bill! I can see why you wanted to pull this score out of mothballs. Tell me, what were the synth tracks? Were they string patches from an OB8 or something that you played straight on to the tape, forcing you to arrange and orchestrate the separate string lines from a piano part (or worse yet, have to pick it out by ear, having lost any written-out version)?

I strongly ecourage anyone who is contemplating getting into the world of composition using VSL instruments (or really, any type of virtual orchestra) to watch this video. It is the clearest, most straight-forward description of the work involved in creating lifelike MIDI renditions of this type of music that I have seen. Great work, Dave!

Very cool, Bill! I thought at first that you were channeling Rossini, who it is said would yank arias wholesale out of his previous works when he knew his next premiere was in a town that hadn't heard the previous use of the tune. But when I rechecked the intro of one of my favorite Kersten opuses, I found that I was wrong; similar, but clearly different. I like 'em both.

On the subject of the Goldsmith Universal fanfare, I just heard an interview with the great LA studio French hornist Jim Thatcher wherein he talks about playing on that track. He relates that he played Wagner tuba on it. When queried if being stuck with the tuben part was the fate of the last hornist to show up for the session, he declared, "No way!" Honking a few bars on the tuben earns the player 50% premium pay as a doubler. The hornists always try to talk the composers into using Wagner tubas for a lick or two.

This is weird, Bill. I happen to be listening to the Romantic Symphony right now on Spotify! I'd switch over to your video so I could follow along on the score but I have to maintain at least the facade that I'm working; I can listen to music in the "background" as long as I at least have something work related on the screen. Guess that goes for the VSL website, too! Bye...

Tom

Bill,

I really enjoyed the walkthrough video; very informative. It led to a question that may seem terribly basic, but here goes: I see on the sequenced tracks of the two wind intsruments that you showed (2nd flute and oboe) that there is an overlap as one note passes to the next, even on these monophonic lines. This is intriguing because, obviously, a flute cannot still be playing the previous note after you have changed fingerings and begun sounding the next. It sounds wonderfully natural when it happens in your recording, however. Is this trick something that you add manually when you create the sequence or is this something the system does automatically, either as part of the legato patch itself or in the Humanizing logic?

There's something liberating about being so damned ignorant you are not ashamed to ask stupid qestions.

Thanks!

Tom

Bill, you outdid yourself on this one. The montage of those glorious HST images blended so perfectly with this exquisite, ethereal, music...wow. The mix on this piece simply blew me away! I was so reminded of my favorite old Mehta/LA Phil recording that I wore the grooves off of in my youth that I called it up on Spotify and compared it side-by-side with yours (for me, a sort of acid test). Your work with VSL compares very favorably with this great orchestral recording. I have loved this particular recording (more even than the highly regarded Boult or my usual favorite Bernstein) primarily for the sound of it. I always figured that they'd used a bit of Hollywood soundstage recording technique, as opposed to the more legit "put 'em onstage in a great concert hall and try to make the recording sound as if you were sitting in row 20" school of thought. The woodwind parts, the pitched percussion, the solos, the pipe organ...all stand out with a clarity that I've never heard sitting 50' away in the audience. It's not as if the balance is screwed up, it's perfect. It just sounds more close, more present. Your Neptune has this effect even more palpably than the LA Phil recording for me. I don't know if that's what you intended, but it absolutely works for me.

Tom

Paul,

I am so sorry that you are struggling with such serious health issues at this time of your life, Paul. I only know you through your posts, our limited correspondence, and your music, but that is enough for me to confidently say that I know you to be a man of faith, courage, and character, all of which will carry you through this difficult trial.

I always enjoy your music and look forward to your next piece; your skills with the virtual orchestra grow with each new effort. Courage, and all my best wishes to you, my friend.

Tom

Thank you, David. I Iooked up a couple of YouTube videos of violinists demonstrating ponticello. I've heard it often enough, just didn't know that was the technique used to get that sound.

Lunar, this is some fine work, both the music and your midi realization. This Bb clarinet/string trio/bass clarinet configuration is very cool. I've never heard it used before. To me, the bass clarinet in and of itself does not add to darkness or "bleakness" of the sound; just a distinct, easily-differentiated bass voice...especally helpful in stuff like this with a polyphonic-type texture.

If I could ask a technical question: to my badly worn-out ears, it sometimes sounds like there are more things going on than the five afore-mentioned instruments. In paricular, at 1:40 and again at 6:57, there is a sound in the background, sort of pulsing quarter notes in minor seconds, that sounds for all the world like a couple of muted trumpets. I assume it's some kind of special technique in the strings but I can't identify it (I'm a brass player and don't have much knowledge of string performance methods). What is it?

Again, very impressive stuff. Thank you for sharing it.

Give a listen; you will be richly rewarded. Not just by the inventive music itself, but by the astonishing use Dave has put the VSL software to in creating the solo cello part. For those who might consider a half hour too much of an investment of precious time, well, let he who has never watched an entire episode of Gilligan's Island (or some contemporary equivalent) cast the first stone. Just sayin'...

Well Bill, never let it be said that you don't know how to make a point. That's a lot of stuff. Still, since confession is supposedly good for the soul, I might as well say it: that's what I want to do. I want to write stuff for symphoic band and hear what it would sound like if one of the great wind bands performed it. I have been lurking around this company's website and others for years, pricing the libraries, DAW software, specialized computer, and peripherals I would need to do it. Even if I suddenly could get all that stuff, I am probably too old to live through the learning curve, but I keep dreaming. The fact that virtually no one (even other band enthusiasts) would ever so much as listen to it is discouraging, but not a deal breaker. I would listen to it. They say that Elgar, as he lay dying in his country home, would listen to recordings of his own works. I get that. Of course those recordings were done by the finest musicians and ensembles; he had enthusiastic fans the world over and was greatly honored. I will have none of that. But with this remarkable technology, I could hear what I imagine.

So, as the Cowardly Lion once said, "There's just one thing I want you fellas to do...TALK ME OUT OF IT!"

Great, I lost my brilliant thoughts when I tried to cut and paste them from another thread. Too bad; it was quite witty and brilliant. Suffice it to say that I was a bit disappointed when I realized Bill hadn’t actually done a midistration of Trittico. He’s probably sick of hearing me say this, but I’d love to hear him put his VSL powers to a performance of one of these classic band works or, better yet, one of his own. At least it’s a good sign that he’s thinking about the work of great band composers like Nelhybel. Maybe it will lead to him giving it a try. Here’s hoping!

oops, I put this under the wrong thread. I moved it to the right one
Tom

Dave,

Count me in (I've already sent an email)! I've been wondering what your next opus was going to be and I look forward to hearing it. You won't have to rely entirely on Artificial Intelligence for your critique...I can provide a shot of Limited Intelligence!

Representing the Few, the Proud, the Dave Carovillano Fan Club Members,

Tom

Dave and Becky,

Thanks for the beautiful holiday greeting! My New Year's Wish is that some way, somehow 2020 will be the year I get to hear you guys perform live. Here's hoping!

Where you live now is dang-near as far south as California. Take an afternoon drive to Point Pelee and you are as far south as California. (Last Fun Geography Fact of the year. I promise )

A happy and prosperous new year to you and your family.

Peace,

Tom

Nothing that sinister, Dave. The fact is, you're a sensitive artist doing your best to expose something that's in your heart through your music. If someone listening to it gets it right once in awhile, that's on you! Actually, it might also have something to do with the "kindred spirit effect." Let's just say that your method of reverse-engineering essays is not entirely unprecedented.   Come to think of it, my one and only composition (the Pop Goes the Weasel fantasy) just sort of...went there. I had no intention going in of doing a jazz-style variation, of a Bill Chase tribute, of it turning into a march...none of it. That's just how it turned out.

Bill, you may be surprised to learn that I'm quite a fan of Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite but I agree with you 100% about the jackass movement (On the Trail). It really hasn't aged well, especially as a serious concert piece. The problem ol' Grofe (a helluva musician, BTW) has is that he's best known for one his lamest tunes. I think he introduced the suite when he was the arranger for the Paul Whiteman Orchestra (the self-styled "King of Jazz." Rarely has an artist had a last name that was so profoundly fitting.) The Whiteman recording of the jackass movement was something of a hit and lead Grofe to create the version for full orchestra of the entire suite that we are familiar with. I like the Sunrise and Painted Desert movements the best. Cloudburst is pretty cool, too, but it suffers from comparison with all of those other "sturm" classical charts...4th movement of the Pastorale, Scheherazade, Eine Alpensinfonie, etc, etc.

Tom

Another wonderful piece, Dave. As usual, I've had to listen to it several times to get a handle on it. I think the idea of providing a program is a two-edged sword: On the one hand, it gives the listener something to get a grip on. (How could anything be more abstract than purely instrumental music? If Till Eulenspiegel was named Concert Rondo in F maj would you figure it was about a medieval smartass giving academics the raspberry and getting himself hung for it?) On the other hand, it can get the listener twisted around the axle trying to hear some element of the program in every note and forgeting to just listen and enjoy it for its own sake. No wonder Beethoven himself blew hot and cold on the topic: "Not really a picture of a day in the country, more, you know, an impression...like...y'know...sort of a feeling...but not reallly...sort of..." With your stuff, I try to split the difference. I always figured you went where the muse took you and tried to determine what is was about after the fact...as your note to Crusoe seems to confirm. The one aspect of the program that I hung onto for the first hearing was wondering how you would end it. What was going to happen to the fire? After acting like it was going to head off somewhere into the unknown a few times, the coda settled down and went right where it told us it was going...C maj fading serenely into the sunset. I think you're pretty upbeat about the light, my friend. Elegant, soulful stuff.

On another thought, I'm with Crusoe on hearing the violin in the distance. It's as if you placed it in the back of the house using MIR. I heard a trumpet (I think) that left the same impression. My hearing is always suspect, but if Crusoe hears it, there is likely something to it.

Thanks for sharing this, Dave. I never tire of your work and look forward to your next creation.

Tom

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues, Paul. I hope your music helps to give you peace and comfort in these difficult times. I know that I always feel a sense of joy and peace in your work and this charming brass set is no exception. I just wanted you to know that I was unable to access your score through the link. It took me to a DropBox page that contained an audio file of the music (just like the SoundCloud). I linked to your IMSLP page from the SoundCloud but I couldn't open the score there, either.

Again, Paul, wonderful music! I look forward to hearing many, many more beautiful compositions. Strength and courage to you, my friend.

Tom

Bill,

I've always enjoyed this piece, largely because of how different it is from your big epic works. I've associated it in my mind with your Ye Olde Days of Future Past groove but I really like this interpretation (which I'm sure, since you wrote it, is what you meant in the first place). Your cinematography really tells a story. When you take a hike, even in as spectacular a place as the High Sierras, much of the time your attention is on what is close...a flower beside the trail, light through the trees, your steps on the trail itself. You stop to look at a bird for a few seconds before it moves on (my favorite part, BTW).  Finally, you arrive at a spot where your gaze reaches out to the high peaks. But it's not a big climax with a sweeping crescendo and a modulation; it goes with the flower, the bird and the steps.

Great stuff, Bill. Thanks for sharing it with us. 

Dave and Bill,

You fellows are too kind. As you know, I am a big admirer of both you guys, not only for your wonderful music itself but also for the fact that you are actually doing it...putting in the hours, busting your humps to create the very best music you can. It's the kind of inspiration that could ultimately get me to get over myself and join the party.

Bill, your thoughts on the need of composers to actually understand the nature of the instruments they are writing for is right on. Rimsky and one of his buddies (can't remember who) made a point of learning to toodle a bit on every instrument of the orchestra, just to get a feel for how they made music. Last I heard, he was considered a pretty fair orchestrator   I like to say that good orchestrators give the instruments parts to play that match the temperament...the personality...of the instrument. This means a lot more than keeping the part in the useable range and keeping the limits of the ax's caprice technique in mind. It means that if you're going to write a horn part (for example), no matter how original and unlike any that have come before it, it still needs to be "hornistic." In Don Juan and Till Eulenspiegel, Strauss asked the horns to produce licks that had never been dreamed of in an orchestral setting, but the parts were perfectly hornistic (it didn't hurt that his dad was one of the top hornists in the world).

As Bill points out, the world of virtual orchestration is a place where the composer really needs to watch it, because MIDI is perfectly happy to grind out any stupid lick you may program for any instrument...even though the "wrongness" will be obvious to anyone. There is a chap who used to hang around this list...you know the guy; bit of a piece of work, fancied himself a provacateur...who put together an impressive collection of unknown classical works by unknown composers and put them online. When the VSL Historic Winds release with the natural horns came out, he found a couple of little-known horn concerti by a worthy named C. F. Abel and dutifully cranked them out. I was digging his effort...the strings were tight and nicely balaced with a clean, chamber orchestra sound, the horn solo was singing along with nice phrasing. Then...the closing allegro arrived. His tempo was so brisk that the ghost of Punto himself would have cried "Uncle!" This cat Abel must have been a cracker-jack virtuoso (or was working with one); his chart is chock-full of arpeggiated figures climbing to the highest register of the Eb horn; real show-off stuff. But at my man's computer-assisted tempo they popped out with a blatantly artificial perfection; every note absolutely centered, no discernable difference between the stopped and open tones, runs and arpeggios rattling out with machine gun precision. It was, to me, comical. Despite the fact that he was working with an actual historical piece of music, written by an actual performer of the era, and despite his obvious skill with sampled orchestra production, my man had rendered his work unhornistic.

Dave,

As an avowed fan of your music, it must seem odd that it has taken this long for me to address such an important new composition. Suffice it to say, I have listened to it several times and every subsequent hearing reveals something new. This is an eloquent, deeply personal work and you have bared yourself through it in a way that took some genuine courage (at least that's how it comes off to me). Your MIDI performance is getting better all the time, BTW; I think I can say that this is the best effort on that front that I have heard from you. Congratulations!

As to why it took so long for me to even show up...I have come to realize that I am the very embodiment of point 4B from your earlier post:

"Also, many hobbyist composers will feel ill-equiped to offer any kind of real insight in to the music, and would rather leave it for others to do"

That's me. Essentially, I'm a poser. I have composed exactly one piece of concert music that has been performed. I do not own a single VSL product; I just show up on the website and drool over it. I am in the enviable position of having a dear friend who is the conductor of a decent adult wind ensemble who has told me that he will program anything I write that is reasonable and playable, but I can't make myself write anything new. I'm sort of the obnoxious kid brother standing on the sideline wanting to get into the game with the big kids. Maybe that's why I didn't have anything to say about When Doubt Arises...it hits too close to home.

Tom