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1.Which MacPro for DP8, VEPro, Kontakt and MIR? More cores or faster CPU? 10/16/2014 3:34:37 AM

I'm still on a 2008 8 core MacPro 32GBs. Hopefully that will change soon. When VEPro is running at about 18GBs of real memory is starts to act wonky. So I'll start loading VIs into DP and maybe use MIR Pro as an insert in DP. DP is pretty good as a VI host up to a limit. Then I'll start getting some communication errors between DP and VEPro.

That's just my experience, so that's my rational for the iMac/MacPro setup. I realize newer computers are much better but I guess I'm a little skeptical about one computer handling everything for a massive template. But it seems to work for some people.

2.DS - I probably never heard the "Dimension" 10/16/2014 3:15:27 AM

@nektarios Gotcha. Yeah, I'm at that point now where I need more MIR channels and am not sure what I'm going to do. Vienna Suite is holding me off for now.

3.DS - I probably never heard the "Dimension" 10/16/2014 1:58:03 AM

Sorry Beat. That was meant for nektarios. Let me edit that. 

4.Which MacPro for DP8, VEPro, Kontakt and MIR? More cores or faster CPU? 10/16/2014 1:18:32 AM

The Geekbench score for a combined iMac i7 3.5 and a current 6 core 3.5GHz is 35526. That's equal to the 12 core (just adding the scores). I'm guessing that in some ways the iMac/6 core system might feel quicker, but you have to factor in the 2 system latency not to mention any hassles with a 2 computer system (which I have no experience with). Perhaps I'd run DP, with a few VIs, plugins and maybe a light VEPro instance on the iMac, then leave the rest to the 6 core. 

iMac + 6 core = $9000 (more or less)

12 core = $9000 (more or less)

Any thoughts on that?

5.DS - I probably never heard the "Dimension" 10/15/2014 11:51:01 PM

@nektarios - Why do you not want MIR Pro 24? I can understand you may want an unlimited MIR at a lower price, and I don't like having to pay about $350 or more to upgrade to MIR full when I only need a couple more channels of MIR, but MIR 24 works in a lot of situations. Of course DS has 25 instruments. :(

if you have Vienna Suite you can use that for everything else. 

Anyway, an old thread, but I thought it was a curious statement. 

6.Does anyone have video or audio samples of the cello, basses or viola sections of Dimension Str... 10/15/2014 11:21:42 PM

Well, I found Beat's thread that answered some of my questions. I'm still looking to hear more of the cellos and basses in a larger orchestral setting. I'm searching the forum, but would be happy if people just leave links. Thanks. 

7.Trouble with getting the right string/percussion libraries. 10/15/2014 10:09:37 PM

I agree that VI would be a much better place to ask something like this. But, I'll say that even though I love everything VSL, LASS and CinePerc might be a good addition to your VSL collection. CinePerc is big and has a lot of low end (LFE channel on bass drums). LASS is similar to VSL strings in that they're recorded dry, but they have a little room sound to them, have great and easy to use legato, and blend well with VSL libs. Some people will take something like Albion I, which has a very baked in room sound, and use the ambient mics to overlay it to the VSL strings.

That being said, head on over to VI and see what your friends there think. 

8.Does anyone have video or audio samples of the cello, basses or viola sections of Dimension Str... 10/15/2014 9:55:06 PM

I'm considering buying DS but I'd really like to see some YouTube video of the other sections (besides the VSL made violin section videos), or at least some audio samples of individual and sections from the violas cellos and basses. 

Can anyone assist?

Thanks. 

9.Which MacPro for DP8, VEPro, Kontakt and MIR? More cores or faster CPU? 10/12/2014 11:50:16 PM

Currently I'm running Digital Performer 8 and VEPro (4 instances) on a single 2008 8-core MacPro. With 32GBs of RAM, and all SSDs my orch template pushes the CPU to the max, and uses 99.8% of the RAM. So, I'm going to buy a new Mac (I don't want a PC even if performance and price are better).

My question is this.. With DP, VEPro and Kontakt all MP aware, which MacPro would work best? The 3.5Ghz 6 core or the 2.7GHz 12 core MacPro?

Seems like having 12 cores (24 virtual)  would make sense with the four apps I listed above. Or am I wrong? Should I go for the faster CPU speed in this case?

I've also thought about buying a new iMac i7 32GBs RAM for DP, and a MacPro 64GBs for a VEPro/MIR slave. What do you think about that setup?

Thanks!

Steve

10.Spreading Dimension Violins over two SSDs? 9/16/2014 5:33:41 PM

You'll still use regular SATA SSDs. Either you can use a SAS enclosure (which takes SATA devices), or use an eSATA enclosure and use a mini-SAS to eSATA cable. Very common. Look on OWC or Amazon for "mini SAS ro eSATA cable" and the other items. 

Or look here <http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001L9DU88/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?redirect=true&ref_=pe_157280_123686280_em_1p_0_ti>

11.Spreading Dimension Violins over two SSDs? 9/16/2014 6:41:25 AM

Have any of you guys considered getting a SAS card and running 3 or 4 SSDs in a RAID? You should see around 2000MB/s read times. You can really push some data with a 4x or 8x SAS RAID. The enclosures might get pricey but I believe with an 8x 2 port card you could RAID 8 SSDs for a potential 4800MB/s. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure you can combine the two ports. Regardless I know SAS moves at 4800MB/s on an 8 lane PCIe 2 slot. 

12.Mixing MIR with Vienna Suite's Convo reverb and powerpan 9/13/2014 4:26:05 AM

I have MIR Pro 24. I plan on upgrading at some point to the full MIR Pro, but I'm buying Vienna Suite first. If I use all 24 MIR instances for my strings and brass but use VS's Powerpan and Convo verb for winds and percussion, should they blend nicely enough?

13.How much read speed do I really need for samples/MIR/audio? 9/12/2014 8:15:49 PM

I'm considering adding a mini-SAS card and enclosure to RAID four SSDs which should give me 2400MB/s read speeds. My goal is to eliminate any and all bottlenecks concerning streaming, buffering and DFD speed. (Don't have a TB2 MacPro yet).

With MIR being cached, 1000s of samples being read along with audio (all that is not in ram), seriously what number should I shoot for from a single computer setup? 1200MB/s? 2400MB/s? 4800MB/s?

(Assuming I have 32-64GBs of RAM and a fairly recent MacPro, a fully loaded orchestral setup of VSL, Kontakt libs, MIR etc...

Thanks

14.From buyer - How to do I buy (license transfer) Vienna Suite from seller? 9/11/2014 11:12:21 AM

I can't find any info on the site and I have yet to recieve a response from sales/support.

Thanks

15.MIR/MIRx Users - Konzerthaus Grosser Saal or Teldex? 8/13/2014 7:55:49 PM

That was my dilemma too. I thought for sure that Teldex would be more useful. I use some of the Orchestral Tool stuff, and LASS, and Teldex sounds more like the libraries that I tend to buy. But, I use Grosser Saal more often. Go figure. Teldex is brighter with a slight midrange dip that gives some instruments (brass especially), a bit of a metallic sound. Maybe because some of the Kontakt libs are a bit hyped sounding out of the box, Teldex tends to add to that, where Grosser can sometimes tame it.

That's been my conclusions so far. As I get faster with EQ I may be saying something different, but I get good milage out of Grosser Saal because I like the darker and bassier tone. My music tends to fit Grosser Saal, but I may write more with Teldex in mind.


"general soundtrack/trailer/library/film/tv work" Those are all different rooms to me. Sorry.

16.Question about MIR presets 8/13/2014 7:42:02 PM

Ah, not bad. I saw the new icon and had activated it but did not have time to figure out what it was. Somehow I'm just now getting to it. 

MIRx mode works well, but one extra feature would be especially great. In addition to the MIRx profiles (ensemble center, solo right rear, etc..), it would be, hmm, nice I suppose if there were instrument specific and full orchestral seating positions. I understand why that could be a problem (every library outside of VSL) is different, and would sound different, and besides, let's not get too lazy here. We still should know how to mix.

However, taking it further it would help show some tricks that take advantage of MIR (like backwards horns, or doubled backwards string sections). It would be nice to have access to complete layouts of famous recordings or certain conductors favorite instrument positionings. Part of it would be practical, part of it would be learning, and part of it would be a good way to show off MIR. MIRx mode is more than halfway there. I hope you also add some of the other room pack halls too at some point (Teldex wide, ORF Funkhaus, any of the Roompack 3 spaces, and Hall One Sage Gatehead.

Anyway, thanks for pointing me towards MIRx.

Steve

17.Question about MIR presets 8/6/2014 11:03:38 PM

Is it possible that you guys could make some MIR room presets that also include some optimized instrument positions? Not that it's not already very easy to place an instrument, but there are those out there that have some really great practical knowledge and tricks about instrument placement in the real world, and in MIR, and it would be very helpful in getting even better mixes or seeing things one hasn't though of before. For instance, doubling the strings and placing them backwards in the back of the room, etc.. Very helpful when I saw and heard that one.

Maybe the instance has to be loaded in the DAW first before an instrument can be placed? I'm not sure if there is a technical reason this can't be done. If so, maybe adding positioning to the Instrument Profiles as an option. That would be great!

And I guess, for people that have MIR Pro 24, some optimized seatings that get the best out of 24 channels and variations on that. IMO, that would be a great feature.

If not that, then is there a place for sharing MIR presets? I know that not everyone uses the same libraries which is an issue, but that's not a reason to not include instrument positions in presets, IMO.

Thanks!

18.Console Emulation Software in the Future? 8/6/2014 10:47:33 PM

That would be a cool feature. How about the RC Tube setting in Slate Digital's VCC? That's an older tube that "might have" been used in some older recordings. Obviously, I'm totally guessing but at least of all of the consul emulations I've seen, we pretty much know from what era it comes from.

From that, what console that is commonly emulated (Neve, SSL, Trident, API, Helios, REDD, etc..) might come close?

19.Are MIRacle and the algorithmic part of the Hybrid reverb essentially the same? 6/17/2014 6:24:54 AM

Anyone?

20.Are MIRacle and the algorithmic part of the Hybrid reverb essentially the same? 6/15/2014 9:32:59 PM

They look the same, have mainly the same presetes, and function the same. So, just curious, is MIRacle the algo part of Hybrid?

Thanks!

21.VEP5 + Digital Performer + Event Input plugin = Stuck and missing notes 6/1/2014 7:33:02 AM

According to someone I know that does custom VEPro installs, his opinion is that the Event Input issue (the overall frozen note issue part of it at least) could be due to two things -

1) OSX needs some CoreAudio maintenance work, (comparable to the work Mark Russinovich did for Win 7 - although Apple did their own in ML and Mavericks*). I don't buy this theory personally. DP seems to run about the same on OSX and Windows, whereas Cubase seems to be heavily coded in favor of Windows to be getting the kinds of speed gains I read it gets. (*from an article on dawbench.com about cross platform MP performance). Also, this has nothing to do with part of the actual issue being reported concerning certain reverb plugins and the Event Input plugin.

2) The Event Input plug-in just needs work, and that affects non VST3 users on OSX systems.

I don't know about that claim either. I only present these claims because they come from someone of decent reputation, and I thought perhaps they might make discussion points.

I have no desire to get into a war of words with anybody about these claims (I use OSX, DP/Logic and VEPro and have no intentions of switching anyway - so I'm not biased one way or another because my rig works for me).

Any thoughts on these comments? Keep the discussion going guys. I'm confident between these two great companies (MOTU and VSL), this will get fixed.

Cheers!

22.VEP5 + Digital Performer + Event Input plugin = Stuck and missing notes 5/25/2014 11:58:44 PM

I emailed MOTU last week, referencing this thread and got this reply.

"There was a separate issue with the VEP Event Input plug-in that was resolved in DP 8.04 (most likely the issue that Dave was referring to), but there is still an ongoing issue with stuck notes when using Event Input plug-in. 

Hope that gets everyone here on the same page at least. I'm glad they were striaght with me about it (which they always are).

I've actually been doing exactly what is recommended in this reply. For now, a lot of my percussion section is in DP (I use MIR Pro for those if needed), and some solo instruments and various other things that would require the Event Input, I have either moved them to DP (but I try to keep DP under 6GB of Real Mem usage), or I create a new instance (which I've done for the brass section). Since I'm using the ARC in LASS almost exclusively right now, I can get away with one instance of VEPro for the string section.

Please keep sharing any info or updates. 

Thanks!

23.What do most film composers use for a DAW? I know its not Pro Tools. 5/10/2014 12:41:46 AM

We've had a lot of the same experiences. I started using the black and white DP at version 1.7! Woo! Back in the day of four audio tracks with the audiomedia card and Sound Designer II. Sure was stable though. I had started on Master Tracks Pro on a Mac Classic and need to step up. I took months trying to decide between Performer, Vision, Cubase and Logic. They all were really good. Very even. Vision was really good and had a great interface. I remember being impressed by Cubase. I thought Performer had the most features but was kinda ugly with all GUI icons. But I went with DP. on System 7 on a Mac Quadra 040 Motorola CPU running at 40Mhz! That was fast back then! Good thing as Vision went bye bye. When I got up to DP4 I got involved with a project that took a sickening 4 years! I didn't upgrade anything until that massive project was over. By then MOTU has just come out with DP7. DP8 is by far, their best release after DP4 IMO. I heard I didn't miss much with DP5 and 6.

One cool thing to do is to use BOTH DP and Logic. With Rewire and DP's Interapplication MIDI you can use Logic as a host for DP. I do some stuff that's great to do in Logic and then pipe Logic channels to DP through Aux tracks. Works great!

Let's see... Like you I didn't like using chunks. I liked to work linear and I used DP that way (like PT). Now with VEPro and VRacks I definitely use Chunks.

The object oriented workflow in Logic seemed illogical to me. I could not get started in Logic to save my life.

People new to MOTUNATION ask about wanting to mute individual MIDI notes (which DP can not do, it can mute audio soundbites), and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why someone would want to do that. Is it a music genre thing? Or is it to hear the effect of a rest on a melody? I just use my ear on the latter one. And right, automation in Logic is weird. I've had to undo so many times. Ha. Two things that DP gets criticized for I REALLY like - separate MIDI and VI tracks (which makes multitimbral tracks a very normal thing, plus I like my VI's separate for Vracks), and having CC line automation in one window compared to DAWs that use multi frames (which take up a lot of space), I like the way DP does that (multi-selecting CC lines, etc..).

I actually like DP's audio comp tracks a lot, but it feels about the same as Logic.

I really enjoy sketching in Logic. I don't do much editing but I can fly through ideas in Logic. DP needs little more organizing time.

Anyway I'm just repeating myself or what you said. I like and use both. I can't wait to update to Logic X. I really like the drummer in Garageband for iOS. And MainStage is awesome. I wish MOTU added "fun" things to DP more than they do. 

I think I'm going to learn Cubase and maybe Reaper next. I'd like to know in a nutshell the important differences between DP and Cubase (besides that Cubase won't win any beauty contests-sorry! That's not important until a GUI gets offensive - like older versions of Windows. Sorry again!). Anyway, good to hear your stories.

24.What do most film composers use for a DAW? I know its not Pro Tools. 5/7/2014 6:21:40 AM

Errikos - Again, sorry for the delay. Was out of town.

About plugins between DP and Logic. As of Logic 9 vs DP 6 or 7, Logic has had way many more plugins which helped it's popularity (MOTU has a way of being late with these things). And Logic's plugins are exceptional. Apple continues to add nice pop music plugins (like the drummer feature, and the amp sims). There are some handy plugins unique to Logic that DP does not have (Test Oscillator, Exciter, Grooveshifter, Sub Bass, Pitch Shifter - as a plugin , but DP has it like melodyne, built into the waveform. I think Logic X has this now?), BPM Counter - as a plugin, and some of the Dist, Delay, Filter and Modulation plugins. DP does have different takes of some of these.

On the other hand, DP 7 and 8 added some nice plugins itself. (check out this web page http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/plug-ins.html).

Some of the highlights are speaker cabinet rooms for guitar and bass (fairly unique - almost MIR like), a very nice dynamic EQ, a wonderful phase correction plugin (I use it all the time), a 5-band MS dynamic EQ, a de-esser that's a one band dynamic EQ, a sub-kick bass drum enhancer, a deep ensemble chorus, the Masterworks series Comp, Limiter, EQ (very nice) and a LA-2A clone leveler.

Some of DP's unique plugins are Pattern Gate, POLAR (a RAM based loop recorder - great for vocal re-takes), an MS decoder, a Moog style multi mode filter, and the assortment of Delay, Dist, Modulation, Filter and Reverb types.

It's fairly even now, but with Logic having a few more plugins, both having high end plugins, but DP having a small handful of killer plugins that Logic doesn't have, and visa versa. Logic's Space Designer is roughly equal to DP's utilitarian ProVerb. Both are great, but neither is AltiVerb.

Also, DP has had MIDI plugins and Spectral Effects  for 20 years, (can edit pitch, time and formant, like flex time but without the ability to automate speed and pitch together - for the tape machine stop effect for example).

DP has part of VocAlign built in.

DP does not have Apple Loops (but can use them, nor does it have the new drummer feature). DP does not have a decent sampler nor many VIs (this is where Logic KILLS DP). One has to buy DP's VIs separately (a stupid move IMO)

Overall, except for VIs, they just about even each other out. I'd give Logic the edge but with DP having a few killer must haves.

I know I'm leaving something out but that's a pretty decent breakdown I think. Go to that link above and you'll see for yourself.

If there is one DAW that comes with enough VIs and plugins to do a pro production out of the box, it's Logic. Cubase has it's good plugins (Halion, Padshop and many many others), DP does have MachFive which is great, but is not included with DP (MOTU hear's from me often about this), but regardless which DAW one chooses in our business we all need Kontakt pretty much anyway.

Logic is a great DAW. Overall DP does certain things better, IMO. There are a lot of Cubase users here, but there are a lot of strengths to Cubase, Logic and DP (and Pro Tools too), and I like having three of them generally - DP, Logic and PT. Together they cover so much ground and I like switching to Logic for some things, and back to DP for others. No big deal to me.

I'd like note Expressions, but I can live without. I'm waiting to find out if VEPro and DP are having issues (mentioned in another thread), but I see no reason to leave DP for Cubase. I see no reason to leave Logic for anything. But I see very good reasons to learn a couple of contrasting DAWs. It doesn't take much time as there is a lot of cross over.

Hope that helps. I'll try to add a lot more detail to the DP vs Logic orchestral music comparison soon. DP wins, IMO, for a couple of very important reasons, but you have no reason to stop using Logic for orchestral music if you're getting the job done IMO. Logic's score editor is actually is better than DP (but I use Sibelius anyway).

25.VEP5 + Digital Performer + Event Input plugin = Stuck and missing notes 5/7/2014 4:54:36 AM

I can replicate this issue easily if you'd like me to make a screen video. Usually it's Kontakt libraries with high voice counts or multiple mics (like Cinebrass or CS2). Happens A LOT. When I stop using my sample based WW libs and use WIVI, the issue almost goes away. Possibly a bandwidth, timing, sync or latency issue?

Would loved this fixed more than ANYTHING. I rely on DP everyday. Would be glad to help if needed. Do Logic users have this problem? I've tried using the VST version of some of the related plugins instead of AU, and maybe it helped?

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