How can one KNOW what plug-in is hanging the load? Every time I've had VE Pro get stuck, I haven't had as clue WHICH plug in failed. When one has hundreds, the "trial and error" to determine the "culprit" could be a disaster, resulting in days of lost work. In a "lucky" scenario, maybe a user might have just updated "one" plug-in so as to make it obvious. But in reality, its not that simple. Unless I'm missing something? 

I fully agree! Vienna is passing the buck and NOT being responsible for their customers who RELY on their product for their careers! Fail VSL, FAIL FAIL FAIL! No more "features", no more "updates". Please focus on RE-designing your product to allow users to BYPASS any stuck loads. ASAP please!

Are there any reports of issues with Sample Tank 4 in Ve Pro, Windows? Sampletank3 IS working but, 4 is not. Also, TRacks 5 plug ins are not working either. Please advise

As a long time user and Fan, For me, if VE Pro wants to be a truly DEPENDABLE hosting format, it needs to forget what is "possible", and instead, realize that users desperately need CERTAINTY that One stupid sub program cannot FREEZE an entire template. So, VE Pro needs to build into its capabilities a diagnostic tool of some sort.

There are many possible levels to this:

It can be a timed out based approach, where if VE Pro does not hear back from a program that's trying to load it will bypass and move on.

It can be a special opening mode where audio is shut off allowing a user to see which programs aren't loading and bypass them before turning on the audio aspect back on. And it can be many other approaches, all equating to isolating any hanging VI, bypassing it, and NOT HANGING!

I am not a programmer, I do not care one iota about programmers or their "needs" or "limitations" I care about what end users NEED.

As of this moment, VE Pro is an extremely vulnerable program to rely on for the sole source of one's orchestral or VI library. It is subject to the weakest link of any 3rd party VI that goes retarded. If you have 60 VIs, realize that any one of their "updates" can potentially sink Vienna and therefore one's whole template or song.  If Toontrack screws up its naming protocol like once happened to me, VE Pro is sunk. If ever problematic Mach 5, with its low IQ method of searching for its sounds can't find its brain when trying to load, 99 other working VIs can ALL be stopped dead in their tracks. Terrible terrible terrible! 

This is the REAL #1 issue users need addressed. I believe it can be done. It starts with a no excuses attitude and THREE- realizations:

1) that VE Pro is extremely vulnerable.

2) That it is completely unacceptable for any one malfunction of a VI to stop the entire template from loading. 

3) That something CAN be done about it.

Hey Paul, I really appreciate that you asked the developers for me.

I guess I would recommend a redesign of the product then. Its a great product, dont get me wrong. I have sent a lot of business your way over the years as VE Pro is the most efficient VI hosting software out there, period!

But Its the users that drive things in the long run, not technical limitations. The "long run" would be a VI hosting software where ONE failed plug could NEVER ruin a whole movie score. There must be a way to design some sort of fail safe examination protocol. For example, In my Source audio music page, when uploading my spreadsheet, it examines the CSV file first, spots any issues, lets you change the source CSV file, and only imports after all is well. Though undoubtedly more complex, it might be nice for VE Pro to have such an examination PRE process. Or, Vienna could add a utility program that would look inside any saved VE file, and examine the components parts BEFORE attempting to open the MAIN Ve Pro file. Perhaps, if it discovers plug in #3 is failing, the utility would also have the capability to take out that failed plug in, or bypass its loading. It cannot be acceptable to anyone, Vienna, or users, to be subject to catastrophic failure on any given day. This is the state of VE Pro now, great a program as it is. Of course, I do incremental back ups to minimize risk, but even with incremental back ups, if a program updates, and such an update creates a HANG for itself, that "hang" will effect all prior backups too. This happened to me when Toontrack changed something about the way it named its EZ drummer. You guys managed to help me, (thank you!), but my project was down for several days waiting. All of this means what it means=any elaborate or simple VE Pro file can die any time. Not a good feeling for us composers. Imagine so many 3rd party plugs and VIs being updated without consulting or testing at Vienna....this makes for a potential "instant death" of the project file, anytime. That cannot be something considered a "minor" problem, and I am surprised more users have not realized the danger of this issue. Whatever you guys did to fix my broken EZ drummer shows there is a WAY to look inside the programming to find hang ups. That should be a utility program, not just from Vienna, but many other manufacturers too. In the day of weekly Apple OS updates, it is time safeguards get put in place. Will it be perfect? No. But the issue should be addressed. Thanks for your help over the years Paul..:) 

Hey Paul,

Just want to make sure Im clear as possible, I don't really want VSL to "find out what's causing" a failure to load. I just want VE Pro to be aware it is hanging and be able to BYPASS that plug and load the rest. In such a scenario, the plug that failed would appear greyed out or something, after loading the rest of its plugs/VIs. Then. a user can see the problematic plug and decide to save-as after removing it. From your end, you are more technical than I am, understood. But from a USER end, we don't care. We dont want to be kneecapped by a plug in. We dont want to have a huge template we rely upon fail due to, in my case, Mach 5. (I found out that <ach 5 wasn't understanding its own dumb library, and it was waiting for an answer as to WHERE its sounds are. On my 2010 cheese grater, it load with error. On my trash can, VE ro just hangs). So from the idea of "what's needed and wanted by end users", I think this kind of software escape hatch, knowledge that it is failing etc,..would be a HUGELY appreciated improvement.

Are you saying when VE Pro hangs, the Vienna software itself has no idea it is hanging up? I would think it possible to program into the software some self awareness, some timed "call" to itself that says, "hung for 3 minutes=failure"...and the length of wait time could even be user definable in the event certain plugs take longer). So after a certain time out period,  the software could be programmed to bypass that plug in and move on.  The idea that a whole score or movie could DIE because one plug in screws up is a terrible thought.

This concept not only applies to VE Pro, but to any software. Vienna isn't the only company that has this issue. All DAWs do too. I think its a universal need in all audio software. Not being a programmer, I am clueless as to HOW to do this. But it is the end users and their demands for features that drive any software market, and I feel it's long overdue for "Host" software of all kinds to start becoming aware of itself just enough to know it is HUNG..and have some sort of escape hatch to avoid the whole process failing.  Is it THAt hard? It can't be programmed to notice a time out of more than a certain interval and ACT on it? Perhaps you could explain in simple terms? Because I dont understand it very well. Thanks for going off topic with me..but this is an vital issue. Also, if I may go off subject again, I would like to request Ve Pro to work with Waves plug ins. My guess is Waves wants to charge too much $ for licensing or something? Cheers :) David

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi David, 

Please connect your instances and everything will be ok.

That's an ancient Kontakt bug... 

Best, 
Paul

I love your product bro, but on another matter, one thing you guys gotta do in Vienna is create some way to resolve Hang Ups by ONE silly VI. I have a B room computer that sometimes saves my butt by opening Vienna Files that won't open in my newer computer. But this show a huge Achilles heel in VE Pro, it can get hung by ONE stupid program. I am about to embark upon making some huge templates for film and I am terrified that I will have some big score template, or song, and have it hang because some company changes something in their software ...hanging Ve Pro. You guys HAVE TO make some sort of escape hatch capability. Some sort of shelf diagnostic user capability to SEE what is hanging, and BYPASS it. It must drive composer absolutely crazy when their projects hang and they don't know which program or why and they are helpless or have to send in the file to you guys to figure it out. This makes Vienna terribly vulnerable and unreliable. I say this out of much respect for your product my brother. In the meantime, if you have any secrets for sussing out a HANG UP, Im all ears. Thanks for your help :) Dave

I am experiencing graphics problems, and along with them, an inability to access the pages of functionality of these programs.

It is not all 3rd party VIS, just some of them. While not a complete list, so far: Kirk Hunter Kinetic Motion Strings/8Dio Terminus, Blackbird Drums etc.

Some programs have scrambled graphics, others, like 8Dio Terminus, show the initial screen, but when clicking "enter", the word glows but doesn't open anything. These same programs work fine INSIDE of Digital Performer, but not on Ve Pro in either my Mac or PC???

I am on a 2013 Mac Pro-OS 10.14.6, Ve Pro 7.0.1056.

Please advise....David 

Yah, I tried that several times, didn't work. What DID work eventually, was to keep ripping everything Vienna out of my system and attempt several re installs. I had to also go to prefs and rip things out. Still not sure what other collateral damage was done to VE pro by doing that, we'll see as I access songs. The thrust is, Vienna has the worst, most convoluted installation protocols I have EVER seen. There's various utilities require too much user work. The ONLY thing I want to have to do, is point to WHERE I store the libraries and be done.

Also, there SHOULD be a way to point at the sounds from other locations should the sounds get moved instead of using that TERRIBLE directory manager As of now, I have the OLD V instruments library working, and the new one isn't yet. But I am not messing with it anymore because I need one stupid horn from the original library and I have to finish a project. Once I do, I will again deal with the worst installation and authorization protocols of this company. Once running, VE Pro is a god send. But they need to seriously reconsider their whole installation protocol and make thing user friendly. For example, when uninstalling, I was asked to re enter auth codes, and then told I had already used them. Many users would have stopped there and contacted support for a new code. Fortunately, I told the program Id handling's auth later, only to find out I didn't need them because I was already authorized. Why didn't the installer know this? Because it is a piece of crap. Yet another example of this entire stupid installation protocol where one hand does not know what The other is doing. Want another example?

OK, the dumb installer program refused to finish installing saying the Vienna key program was old, only to force me to quit the installer and lose progress because I could not update the V key program without quiting the other installer. How retarded! Again, this is a company that has a MESS for installation, and the reason to me is most likely years of neglect, patching old installation protocols into each other until one install utility has NO clue what the other part is doing. These installers, to put it very simply..SUCK! I love VE Pro otherwise. Come on guys fix your shit! You cost me 400 today in down time. 

I am sooo outraged, but will try to keep from yelling after a whole night of frustration. I cannot for the life of me get Vienna Instruments to see its orchestra sounds I tried my best to uninstall, reinstall, scan over and over, and whenever I bring up the Vienna player, NO sound or presets show anywhere. I have rescanned directories, deleted some of Vienna prefs everything I can think of. 

1) I need your help

2) I say this with due respect for VE Pro, I have used it for years but feel your installation system is stuck in the stone ages. So many different things so confusing.

3) I need a step by step instruction guide that starts with a complete UN install and step by step on how to go through all your nutty installers to get the Orchestra 2.0 sounds and presets to be SEEn and work. All of this for one damn trumpet I used years ago.

Again, after pointing reinstalling, scanning etc, the player will not see any sounds or presets..

There is absolutely NOTHING showing in the press matrix patch area

Thank you

Is there no trick available to somehow bypass something in VE Pro to allow the files to open , for ex- without audio? It seems like we need a protocol to be able to look inside a stuck file so we could at least bypass the culprit. Otherwise, with large templates especially, if any ONE company changes something, it kills an entire sound library. Wow. Thats a true aqxuiles heel is it not?

I have not arrived at the same conclusions as you. Let me ellaborate:

**If I set the buffers to NOT "live" instances, it vvery much DOES mattter. If I set unrecord enabled instances to none, I will run out of power. I I set the "live" record eneabled instance to 4, it will lag terribly. Therefore my results show that the individual instances DO need to be set intelligently. This makes my ppoint agin-for quicker throughput, lower latency, it is important to be able to put an instance at a setting of "none". It DOES matter. And. again, if I do not set the other insatnces that are not being recorded into to a high buffer, I lose lots of juice.

**I have found threads to work besrtr at 1. In the event I have 50 pianos on a test instance, setting the thread to 24 on my remote PC applies. But I have been very saurprised to see that usually, trying to ADD threads above one, REDUCES performance. This is counter untuitive I know But I have changed these setting sttaring at CPU use and this is what Ive found. Occasionally if a given instance gets large, increasing to 3 threads has helped. 

**It would be nice if Vienna would make threads per instance more definiable. I would like to be able to assign 5 threads on one instance, 1 on another etc, as needed. Vienna could technicallt have some sort of inner memory which would ensure a user didnt go above maximum threads. But custon thread counts per instance is sorely needed due to hopw damn touchy this shit is. It really IS touchy and depends on many variables, on that I agree with you.

** I agree that the thread settings fall short when using a middle amount of innstannces. See my reccomendation above.

**Since posting this, I have tested again and foudn that at least when it comes to pianos, mutliple instances are better, ES{ECIALLY when considering how I work.. I usually end up bussing each instance back into my DAW for EQs and mxing. And I thoroughly proved last night that the system eats WAY more memory with one insance feeding mutliple VIs in a single VSL insatnce whe bussing the audio BACK into a DAW. If any user plans on dedicated returns back into their DAW, it is was more efficvient to just dedicated multiple VSL plugs and, multiple insatcnnes allows for a much better organization of the libaray.. It allows pre made Orch/Piano/Drum/sound FX as instances to be loaded for any song one is on.

I have been testing, and reading past threads frrom members about using One Instance with many VIs on it, vs Many instances with one VI in each.

I have found in my own tests as well as those verified by others, that there is little difference CPU-wise, maybe a 1% improvement with a singe instance verse many instances. This may be due to the small plug in footprint of many instances vs a single, and some communication bandwidht needed for many vs one. 

My idea is this:

What IS really important is the Vienna plug buffer settings one might need. I think it may make sense to organize Instances based off whether you will need to play with buffers set to NONE or not? If I make a huge, single instance template and at 128, try to move the plug in buffer to "none", my system craps out. Because there are FIFTY instruments that have now been move to a buffer of 0. Too much!

So the only way to have separate control over buffers for one inst, is to have that instrument on its own instance.

So pianos? Yes! , give them their own Instance because it sucks to feel a spongy piano. You will want the plug in buffer on NONE when you track, and if that piano is buried in an instance with 50 things on it, MY CPU cant handle going down to a "none" buffer. So I NEED a seperate instance that can run at a zero buffer for piano.

Drums? Yes, zero latency is needed.

Strings? No unless its a bullet fast marcatto 

So I;m gonna try put slow attack items on one Instance, and fast attack items will be divided into new instancxes to allow for a separate settong of "none"

What do you all think of this? The only downside I see is it makes making templates less standardized as things are no longer separated by instrument, but instead, by potenial track latency requirements.

What do you guys think? 

PS.

I really think it sucks to not hear more from Vienna on this. They could be so much more helpful if they would just publish some real world examples of pros and cons for various approaches. Same goes for how to set up a dedicated server address between machines. Thereis is just too much to research to get to the bottom of all of this and Viennna could do MUCH better with real world examples. Great product, instructional support a very mixed bag, could be much better 

SInce my Mac is capable of VST plugs, I'd like to know the exact step necessary to transfer a Vienna Server project from my PC INTO my Mac. Any advice appreciated.

I am trying to get VE Pro down to 32 buffers using Pro Tools into a 2nd i9 computer via gigabt ethernet. I have 2 fast computers a fast ethernet switch (Netgear Pro safe GS108). At 32 buffers, I only get crackle when using the external i(, even on ONE Piano. My tests have shown that I can get 32 buffers on the local server. DO I need 10 gig etehrnet? The onyl thing I will add is that I look into the second mahcine via Microsoft Remote Desktop. When trying to run at 32 buffers, both CPUS , the local trash cam Mac and the remote i9, are not strained, running at low %. I can run at 64 "ok", but 32 doesnt work on the remote. I have a technician thats pretty good at ethernet stuff and I have read some stuff abotu dedicated IP addresses but it is over my head technically. Is there a way i can keep using remote desktop and speed up the ethernet settings to get 32 buffers  to work? It seems I have plenty of computer head room so i am at a loss.

Is this only a VST 3 problem? I thought my VST plugs were working before in 6 on my trash can. Now some VSTs are failing scan. I found what seems to be a "track" Many of the "failed" AUs and VSTs were in a folder called "Unknown". By right clicking each plug in, I was able to successfully scan many of the failed VSTS and even some failed AUs. The VSTs that still failed are: Hand Clapper/Slate SSD5/CSR Hall/Kontakt 3/Melodyne/Ozone 3/PhilharmonikCE/Sample Tank2/Sonar Works/TH1/Trash/iZotope Alloy/RX3/. Please advise

I must admit to being confused by your whole licensing protcol, and i have a feeling I am not the only one, which means, it isnt designed clearly or explained well enough.

What the heck are the "upgrade licenses"? Are they REAL licesnes for 3 of my machines, or, are they a sort of "pass" that allows me to upgrade from version 5 to vers 6 three times? I thought I had licenses for three machines, but I see in my VSL that I have three VE Pro 6 "upgrade licenses". I bought a new elicense key, and when I try to use elicense control center to authorize my new elicensor, it wants my old elicnesor Key which has vers 5 on it. It will not put a license on my new elicense key. It seems to want to see the old elicense key, which has VE Pro 5 on it. (I have attached a pic of my licenses) What good is having three licenses, when I cant put the 2nd or 3rd license on 2 new keys? I need my old elicense dongle to stay in my old system, and a sepearte license for my B room. 

Also, what machine needs to be licensed if I have a Mac Pro with DP10, with a PC slaved via ethernet with VE Pro installed? Do I just need to authorize and have an elicesnor on the PC or both?

If I only need to authorize the PC, will the Master Mac computer be able to install the plug in for DP without an elicensor key in the Mac?

Re: making a list- Thanks you guts so accessable, I appreciate that.

Well, for one thing, right now in DP 9, I have to stay at 0 buffers or the beat is late. 

And auditioning loops in a program like Superior or EX drummer, WITH buffers above 0, "none", results inlopps playing late.

I am not communicating 100% efficiently here, sorry, I'm preoccupied in the studio and wasnt prepared to be scientific with tests of when and where VE Pro started needing to be at 0 buffers again. It used to work on higher buffers in normal operating conditions and only have problems auditioning loops in programs like Superior, or even stylus. But somewhere, with DP 9, it started to need to be at 0 ltency again.

I will tell you this:

I run LOTS of aux tracks with sub mixes and big plug ins on buses and the Mastser bus, which culminates in iZoptope Ozen and other plugs on the master bus. All this worked before though so, even though I know these plug ins make more work for latency comp engines, the fact that they worked untol recently shows they should work. 

Anything been done with that kind of sceario/latency?

Hi Paul and Marnix, you guys are great. I love your product and have taken advantage of the cheaper update before months' end.

BUT I HAVE NOT INSTALLED YET.

1) I really wish you guys made VE 5 and VE6 compatible. Here's why: your instructions are to uninstall and reinstall VE 5 if 6 proves problematic. The flaw in this logic is that VE 5 cannot open VE 6 files. Unless there is a way to "save as" vers. 5 when INSIDE OF version 6, this is a potentially unworkable scenario in the event a user works in VE6 and decides to go BACK to VE5. Any "new" work will be unloadable in VE5!!!

2) I had trmendous difficulties (which you all know well), when EZ drummer changed it's naming protocol. So much so that I had to go BACK to an earlier vers. of EZ drummer. I know that EZ isn't officially supported, (why I haven;t a clue-as EZ is a major drum program), but my quetion is: has this issue been fixed in VE 6? 

3) After all the lost work, I am not in a position to lose any more time so I will wait a few updates before moving to VE 6.

3A-What are the current issues with DP 9.1 and it's new latency protocols? Seems there have been problems. I myself have stayed back at DP 9.01 due to too many problems in 9.1. But I will go to DP 9.1 when updates make that possible.

3B- is there a precise list of known issues with VE6 that I can read so I know in advance whether I'm going to have problems? I have been reading the threads here and followig them via email, but it would be nice if there was a consolidated list. 

Again, it would be so helpful if VE5 and VE6 could co-exist without overwritng each other. Then any user could "jump in" and not be paranoid of problems. When a user has professional obligations on a daily basis and uses VE Pro in such CRUCIAl projects, there is no ability to work in VE6, then "go back" to VE 5 and lose whatever work was done in 6.

Evry time I click the hi hat, crash!

10 minute ago it was fine. I was able to click hi hat before.

VE Pro 5 with DP 9.02crash log atached

I can report the following-

1) No cpu improvement on a session that uses VE Pro for most of it's VIs. It is actually possible cpu performance has gone down. Unfortutely, the update over wrote my 9.02 version, so toady I will re download 9.02 and will advise if I have additional data.

2) Audio glitching while undoing or creating looped sections in DP for editing.

3) Changing VE Pro buffers from 0 to 4 results in VE Pro playing behind the beat. (it was mentioned at one of the forums that VE seemed to work better at buffer of 4 so I tried it).

4) I am pretty sure I am going back to vers 9.02

Question- Does Vienna anticipate cpu improvment in VE Pro projects using the new DP audio engine once all bugs are removed? I am wondering if the main beneft will mostly likely be obtained by placing VIs inside DP itself. I run my VE Pro on one machine

http://littlehipstermusic.com/Clientsongsfordownload/LastDay.42Rdarkermix.viframe64.zip

try adding DOT com. after littlehipster music

Please let me know you got this-

Sorry to be a bother, but I have not heard back from Marnix in several days. 

I have snt the VE Pro session file two times and I am hoping you guys can get it to open and send to me or get me a hot fix?

Toontrack is off researching the issue and I have no ETA when they will fix. They also cannot get me back to the ealrier versions with their installers.