KOMPAKT plug in?

[Matt 1]

Herb & Co!

Is there any NI Kompakt version of the VSL planned? I guess you defenately must go for that, won't you? [:D]

Would be very appreciated to have it like this inside Cubase, Nuendo...

[Peter Alexander]

We've been encouraging this for more than a year. And I'm hoping that the "wait" will be a Kontakt version, if nothing else. The release of another program in three plug-in packages is a very big deal because it lessens GigaStudio's position in the market drastically. The release of a MIDIoverLAN version for the Mac would help Giga's position greatly, moreso if FXTeleport produced a Q4 release that supports Giga 2.5.

I have customers calling throughout the week asking about Kontakt vs. GigaStudio. We cannot hold back the tide much longer.

A release of VSL in Kontakt wouldn't be a competitive move against any single sampling company, rather, it would be a move clearly signaling that the transition away from Giga is gaining momentum. We're now building two audio studios with multiple computers using Cubase SX 2.01, FX Teleport and another library. The move from the Mac to the PC with Cubase saved the composer just under $700 on MIDI interfaces, $2000 on audio cards, and a whopping $1400 on licensing fees that would have been paid to Tascam. In all, a $4100 savings. And with a few pesos added in, the composer could have purchased the entire Pro Edition if it were already in a Kontakt environment, or at least First Edition, and he still would have saved.

These system savings cannot be ignored.

Any sampling company not having a Kontakt release may find themselves seriously behind if 3.0 doesn't ship at NAMM which is less than 10 weeks away. Once SISS, SAM Horns and GOS release in Kontakt, Giga 3.0 may not be needed, especially if GigaPulse is still released as a separate VSTi convolution reverb which obviously will work in the Host PC computer, and if not there, on VStack on the other Kontakt machines.

Based on research, projections are that 1/3 of the Mac installs (roughly 25,000,000) are amateur musicians. That's 7.5 million amateur musicians that with a Kontakt version could easily begin purchasing these libraries, and so, expand the entire MIDI market.

Normally I'm not so vocal on this issue. But the past week I've had too many phone calls asking if it's time to go Kontakt.

Hard question. We'll see what happens in two days.

Peter Alexander
peter@truespec.com

[Alexcremers]

@Peter Alexander said:

Based on research, projections are that 1/3 of the Mac installs (roughly 25,000,000) are amateur musicians. That's 7.5 million amateur musicians.

Now that I don't believe. Even 1/10th would be many. I think that researcher forgot to put the word "potentional" before musician.

---------------
Alex Cremers

[Matt 1]

Let's wait the two days coming?
Peter! I guess we need a statement from Herb! I am very eager on getting an answer!!!!!!
BUT imagine: a Kontakt version will for sure cost agin a lot of money (for sure worth it, Herb) BUT theis would mean as well for other musicians to invest again and again just because of annoying GIGA politics???

If GIGA 3.0 will do/function like NI does - fine, perfect, outrageous!

Hope the future will be bright for us all!!!!! [:D] [[;)]]

[Peter Alexander]

@Peter Alexander said:

Based on research, projections are that 1/3 of the Mac installs (roughly 25,000,000) are amateur musicians. That's 7.5 million amateur musicians.

Now that I don't believe. Even 1/10th would be many. I think that researcher forgot to put the word "potentional" before musician.

---------------
Alex Cremers

In the US, according to the US Census, one third of all adults 15+ are amateur musicians. Thus, 30% of 25 million installs is 7.5 million. The figure includes kazoo playing all the way to professional category. But it serves to point out what a mass market music is, and that the real MIDI explosion has yet to take place among users.

Peter Alexander
peter@truespec.com

[Peter Alexander]

@Matt 1 said:

BUT imagine: a Kontakt version will for sure cost agin a lot of money (for sure worth it, Herb) BUT theis would mean as well for other musicians to invest again and again just because of annoying GIGA politics???

If GIGA 3.0 will do/function like NI does - fine, perfect, outrageous!

Hope the future will be bright for us all!!!!! [:D] [[;)]]

Some would crossgrade, but I see this mostly as an opportunity for new customers who are simply NOT interested in a PC sampling program at all. They just don't want to go to the PC period, especially with the G5 and its promise of 1000 voice polyphony (the equal of 4-5 Giga systems).

Some of the Mac customers we have are willing, obviously, to have a Giga set up. But many, many Mac owners, as much as they like VSL, simply will not go to the PC. And if they've learned DP, they're not interested in suddenly having to learn Logic and invest in an EXS 24 version after they've been using DP for so many years.

[herb]

I would like to see a native version of VSL for Kompakt/Kontakt as soon as possible.
We had already several meetings with Native Instruments.

It only depends on one major issue:
A full integration of the Performance Tool (similiar to EXS MKII)
I think everybody agree that a VSL release without this feature does not make any sense.

So we need a connection to their engine, especially if you use Kontakt as Plug In.

Hopefully Native Instrument will support us in the near future.
Maybe lots of user request directly at Native Instrument could speed up things.

best wishes
Herb

[Peter Alexander]

@herb said:

I would like to see a native version of VSL for Kompakt/Kontakt as soon as possible.
We had already several meetings with Native Instruments.

It only depends on one major issue:
A full integration of the Performance Tool (similiar to EXS MKII)
I think everybody agree that a VSL release without this feature does not make any sense.

So we need a connection to their engine, especially if you use Kontakt as Plug In.

Hopefully Native Instrument will support us in the near future.
Maybe lots of user request directly at Native Instrument could speed up things.

best wishes
Herb

Herb, why does it have to be integrated? THe Performance tool already works with Kontakt on the PC. Danny Lux, who does the music for four major tv shows weekly over here, has the complete library converted for the PC and has the Performance tool working with no problems. Matt Mariano did the conversion, which also includes the legatos. They have it working on the Cubase system and also the separate systems using VStack and FX Teleport.

Ken-p, one of the contributors at NS, has done the same thing on his system and the Performance tool is working perfectly.

Peter

[Mattias Henningson]

The problem obviously arises when you're running Kontakt or whatever as a VSTi. If the tool isn't integrated there's no consistent way of putting it in between the sequencer and the sampler. As of today you can use some clever mumbo-jumbo midi routing which unfortunately is not possible to do in all hosts. For me as a SONAR user an MFX solution would be the ideal way. Cubase users would benefit from this as well. Other sequencers would need other solutions. Making the tool integrated in the sampler would circumvent all these problems and decisions.

On the other hand...if the talk from the VSL team about "dll-based" algorithms in future versions of the tool is what I think it is, then writing some different shells for the tool, including an MFX of course, wouldn't be too hard for a good software developer... [[;)]]

/Mattias

[garylionelli]

Herb,
Thought I ask if the MachFive platform is a consideration. Streaming is imminent and it is compatible with everyone's Mac platform, and sounds fantastic (uses the same UVI engine as Spectrasonics plugs). I am one of those guys who will never buy a PC, and am using VSL within Logic on a separate Mac controlled by another running Digital Performer, but I'd love to have an option besides EXS24. I get the feeling that Native Instruments as a company has got too much going on right now, and with all the stuff that they have yet to update, VSL may be sitting in the waiting room for a long time. VSL for MachFive would be a huge legitimacy shot in arm for MOTU, and therefore the idea could be mutually beneficial.

[Peter Alexander]

A Kontakt / Giga combination, for any developer, works on all platforms and in most every program. It's not my company, but if I was asked about Mach 5, I would vehemently oppose it because MOTU has the absolute worst customer service and is snotty to boot. They're arrogant and uncooperative. You can never get through. And have you every noticed that no one knows who the company president is? He/She never attends NAMM with an identifier. I think it would be a just reward if the president of MOTU unmasked himself and sat down with his user base to hear what they had to say. Maybe a tour of duty in his own tech support department would be worthwhile.

Additionally, MOTU QC on PC products is rotten. Not abysmal, rotten. I have hundreds of dollars of MTP AV's sitting here unused because they can't get their XP Parallel drivers functioning as promised.

When MOTU gets cooperative and clearly has a product that's the equal of Kontakt in its ability to function excellently on both Mac and PC platforms, I say there would be something to talk about.

Additionally, professionals in LA are tending to move away from DP towards either Cubase SX 2 or Logic.

If MOTU was cooperative and responsive, that would be different. But they aren't. And I don't see them as worth the investment money. An investment in Kontakt covers both platforms and nearly all the products, and as such, produces a realistic ROI and with Giga, covers the entire global marketplace.

Peter Alexander
peter@truespec.com

[Nick Batzdorf]

Robert Nathaniel is the president, and I think he's just a reclusive sorta guy. I've met him on the phone, and he was very pleasant.

Peter, why do you suppose pros in L.A. are moving away from DP? I'm not disputing your observation, I'm asking why you think that's happening. My reasons for using Logic more of the time now are: 1. EXS24/VSL; 2. ESB, which streams the native engine into the Pro Tools TDM mixer; and 3. notation.

[garylionelli]

Yes, Robert is very reclusive/Howard Hughes-ish. I have a very positive opinion of MOTU, and it is not my experience that they are snotty or difficult, but I would be equally happy with a Kontakt VSL (whichever takes the least time to develop gets my vote); just need another option so as to not have to use Logic/EXS24, which I’ve tried to like for 6 months now and it’s a no go compared to DP for me. We just need a Mac plug-in sampler for VSL that isn't sequencer-specific and that doesn't take another year to develop.

[dpcon]

Am I correct in assuming that talk of VSL/Kontact with DP on a Mac is basically a G5 consideration? My G4 867 mhz isn't going to handle much beyond a single instance of Kontakt is it? (let alone any plug-ins).

And finally: Is the streaming issue solved on the Mac platform? I don't really know anyone who's doing that reliably but I haven't checked for a little while.

Thanks guys,

Dave Connor

dpcon@pacificnet.net

[laughingbear]

@Another User said:

to Julian Ringel and developers , NI

Hallo Berlin!

ick hab da mal ne Frage.... [;)] Well, allow me to quote Herb(owner and developer of VSL) from the VSL Forum to adress a question I would like to better understand.

quote:
I would like to see a native version of VSL for Kompakt/Kontakt as soon as possible. We had already several meetings with Native Instruments. It only depends on one major issue:
A full integration of the Performance Tool (similiar to EXS MKII)
I think everybody agree that a VSL release without this feature does not make any sense. So we need a connection to their engine, especially if you use Kontakt as Plug In. Hopefully Native Instrument will support us in the near future. Maybe lots of user request directly at Native Instrument could speed up things. best wishes
Herb
end of quote ://:

Question:
Would you please be so kind and indicate whether there is development in the described direction? Any Information would be much appreciated.

Kind regards

Georg "laughing bear" Baumann
-Oceanviewstudio -
Republic of Ireland


__________________
Best
~^..^~
Bear

[laughingbear]

Dear all,

a couple of you? or Kontakt users, joined in the Kontakt forum thread already, thanks for that.

The more come in and express their desire, the better.... takes a few minutes only....

Thanks
~^..^~
Bear

[Peter Alexander]

@Nick Batzdorf said:

Robert Nathaniel is the president, and I think he's just a reclusive sorta guy. I've met him on the phone, and he was very pleasant.

Peter, why do you suppose pros in L.A. are moving away from DP? I'm not disputing your observation, I'm asking why you think that's happening. My reasons for using Logic more of the time now are: 1. EXS24/VSL; 2. ESB, which streams the native engine into the Pro Tools TDM mixer; and 3. notation.

Well, I can't say I've conducted a poll, I'm just going by comments made to me and the number of growing sales of Logic on the Mac. In general, it appears that pros moving over like the layout, like the Environment, like the EXS24 and what it can do plus how it sounds, the quality of the effects, and how Logic uses Pro Tool effects as well.

FYI, my comments about DP snottiness isn't just my experience. Many pros have commented to me over the years the frustration of getting through to tech support, QC issues, being listened to, etc.

With technology changing so rapidly, no software company can afford to be an island. You have to build bridges and listen to those who aren't the heavy posters on the forums.

I can tell you one comment I get a lot: the only thing keeping DP in place is Logic's reputation for having a long learning curve (which it doesn't really if the instruction is organized appropriately). If it weren't for that, it could be a fast exodus.

I personally feel that MOTU missed the boat in not releasing a PC version. When handled right, PC versions can outsell Macs 8:1. All these years of being loyal to Apple and Steve Jobs, and now Apple and Steve Jobs are trying to put them and Avid/Digidesign out of business.

The handwriting is on the wall and perhaps MOTU should start reading it, and doing so by coming to LA (not NAMM) and take people out to lunch and dinner to build something called a relationship. Get to know your customers. Hear them. Listen to those who stayed and those who strayed, those who'd like to move DP and the Mac but won't.

Since you and Gary know the president, suggest to him on my behalf to read a copy of Good to Great by Jim Collins. Can't hurt.

Normally, I'm not so vocal on these issues. But you know, how hard is it to work to build good relationships with customers whose careers are dependent on your program? What's it take to get respect, for competency in customer service and training? MIDI is small market. Both Emagic and Steinberg were bought for under $60 million combined. They don't have millions of current customers worldwide, they have tens of thousands in a global marketplace for the current versions.

Look how hard everyone at VSL works to support their customers. MOTU could do that, as could other companies. It's easy to sit isolated in the Eiffel Tower. Not so easy to talk with customers on main street.

Peter Alexander
peter@truespec.com

[garylionelli]

Peter,
Some of your points re MOTU are well taken. Their isolationist behavior is also similar to that of Digidesign, but in the end, they do have a great product in DP and MachFive. I hope that Apple has no plans to undercut DIGI and MOTU and that they will continue to foster the Mac music platform in general, and be less interested in training Logic to be a MOTU/DIGI killer. I would also say that while initially after Apple's acquisition of Emagic there seemed to a mini exodus from Digital Performer to Logic, I have witnessed (and like you Peter, no polls taken) that many of the those same people gave Logic their best shot only to retreat to Digital Performer after finding Logic so un-Logical. This is a general comment I've heard SO many times. I've spent many a night sitting up in bed with the Logic manual, and thinking "No, this can't be how I'll have to do this!" If you look at DP, ProTools and StudioVision (remember that), they are VERY similar in approach, construction, operation, and philosophy (of course with emphasis on different things), and they are cut from the same cloth. Many people have spent years in and have grown to really appreciate this kind of working environment and as a result, find Logic very difficult to deal with. I do not think this will change unless Apple gives Logic an extreme makeover.

Anyhow, that said, I am a Digital Performer user and my original intent for posting on this subject was to see if HERB would care to comment on VSL development for MachFive.

[Nick Batzdorf]

@Another User said:

Yes, Robert is very reclusive/Howard Hughes-ish.

I think Howard Hughes had really bad OCD, but whatever he had certainly was neurological. There's a name for the phobia when people are afraid to go out, but I think what he had was more general than that - which makes sense, because these things always involve a range of symptoms and there's a huge overlap between several of them.

[Nick Batzdorf]

@Another User said:

I do not think this will change unless Apple gives Logic an extreme makeover.

I suspect you'll see that happen, but as someone who uses both programs, I think you're making too much of a big deal over how hard Logic is to learn. There are always things to discover in Logic, in my case mostly because I swept a lot of things under the rug when I started with it. But it's only terrible to learn when you try to approach it the same way you're used to doing in another program.