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Informations to VIP prices
Last post Mon, Nov 28 2005 by Mattias Henningson, 63 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 01:55
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Because there are so many discussions regarding the VIP pricing, I’d like to try a short explanation regarding this issue:

Why is the product divided into Standard and Extended parts?

There are two reasons for that:
to keep our VIP price system for our existing customers and to enable all our dealers, shops, resellers to deal with our Vienna Instruments.

Fact is, that there are up to thirty different possible VIP prices on some collections, depending which product bundles our customers already have.
That means that all shops, dealers would be forced to buy our products for 30 different prices – that’s unworkably. So the only possibility would be, that they could’t resell any products to existing customers only to new customers.
Our customer base is pretty large now, and if the shops dealers would lose this large userbase, they would drop VSL.

So we decided to split each collection, into the Standard and Extended content, and now all shops, dealers, etc. could buy and resell each Vienna Instrument Standard collection to a fixed price.

All in all we had three (hypothetical) options:

1) only reselling our new products exclusively on our website, here we wouldn’t need to split into Standard and Extended library, because everybody gets his individual VIP price on each complete collection.
I think it’s understandable that this options was no option for us: dropping the complete distribution system and allianating all of our motivated and loyal distibution associates.

2) Dropping the complete VIP price system, so no problems for our dealers, shops.
Also a very bad idea.

3) To divide the product into two parts, one part which could be selled with a fixed price through our distributors, shops, dealers to new and existing customers, and a second part which is sold virtually, where we can offer all existing variants of VIP prices without a problem.

We have worked on the sales concept over a year now and we didn’t find a better solution so far.

At last I want to apologize that we are not ready with the discount calculator, the beast is very complex and CM is working hard to get it ready.

I don’t know if any other topics here list the most important VIP discounts, so maybe this already done, however here you have:

VIP discounts (if you have registered):
First Edition COP: 1650 €
Pro Edittion COP: 3790 €
Opus 1: 650 €
Opus 1&2: 820 €
Solo strings: 450 €
Chamber Strings 565 €

best
Herb
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 02:37
by jc5
Joined on Wed, Jan 26 2005, Posts 180
What are the options exactly for Opus (1 and Bundle) owners?
Is the VIP discount quoted above to upgrade to the whole of the Cube (I assume), or is there in fact going to be an actual 'direct' upgrade option of the Opus collection itself (new features, new samples, etc.), which can then further be upgraded (more steps means more accesibility! [Wink] )?

I, obviously Smile , don't know yet exactly what some of the new components such as Strings II or Brass II contain, but how would an Opus user's 'upgrade path' be effected if one chose to purchase one (or more) of these?

No doubt as everyone else here, I look forward to more information on all this and more, as certainly the new features that the videos revealed are very exciting.
Performance trills - you were reading my mind perhaps? Cool
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:01
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
Hi Herb. I do indeed understand your reasons.

However I saw a calculation Joseph Burrell did, explaining that someone who had bought your first ed, upgraded to Pro Ed and now to The Cube would end up paying $3000 more than someone just buying it as a first time purchase. That shouldnt in my view be the case. Or rather, I would have thought VSL would make sure it would not be the case.

IMHO it should atleast be so, that loyal customers dont end up having paid more for The Cube than newcomers.

Maybe you should have coupled the option you have chosen with some kind of discount for Pro Ed users (and maybe first ed) only. Should be easy enough for retailers, and people owning Pro Ed wouldn't feel so shafted. Sure some of the people owning only one or two horizon products might get sour, but at the end of the day they have made a rather small investment. You cant call Pro. Ed a small investment.
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:10
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
If those are the discounts the owner of a pro edition recieve upon buying the extended version he/she would be at (-)345 euros (in athoer words he/she would be owed that amount. After the 35% discount on the exteneded library is taken in to account of course. does that make sense?

Regardless of that my main problem is the extended material is a more of a - "nice to have" where as the standard version is a more of a "have to have to stay in bussiness" It is also contrary to the concept of pay for the same samples only once regardless of the challenges it would present to do things "the right way" My guess is if you can make a sample library that predicts how long a note is going to be you could have made a system work for "intelligent" pricing.
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:17
by edhamilton
Joined on Thu, Jul 17 2003, Posts 109
Herb,

Please take heed of christians points.

I bought the entire 1st edition.
I upgraded to the pro edition complete.

The way you have structured the VIP upgrade path I will indeed be paying far more for the cube than a 1st time buyer.
And its your early adopters (like ME!) who gave you the cash flow to grow your business and create the cube.
We should not be forgotton so easily.

The discontent occuring right now is the very TIP of the ice berg.
From every point of view you are not fully honoring your previous VIP commitments.

This will have far reaching repercussions for VSL.

Your early users are the reason for your success. In the next few years you will likely face stiff competition (and at lower price points).
Your lack of loyalty towards us early users WILL most certainly be reciprocated.
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:38
by Scott Munson
Joined on Wed, Aug 31 2005, Posts 26
With all due respect-
THIS STINKS!
I just bought Solo Strings and Chamber Strings. Now if I want to "upgrade" I have to buy it all over again?!
This is not an upgrade path!
This is about the worst business practice I've ever encountered from a company!
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:41
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
I guess when you have the market cornered you can charge anything you want.

You know what they say absolute power corrupts absolutly.
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:50
by Scott Munson
Joined on Wed, Aug 31 2005, Posts 26
Thank you!
I think Ed said it best....

Your early users are the reason for your success. In the next few years you will likely face stiff competition (and at lower price points).
Your lack of loyalty towards us early users WILL most certainly be reciprocated.
................
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:51
by Austin
Joined on Thu, Oct 31 2002, California, Posts 373
I went to a porsche dealer but they somehow only carried Itailan imported custom cars Confused: The VIP should be both for standard and expanded for people like me who have had your first edition at the end of 2002 and then went on to pro edition the end of last year! Great product....bad policy.....Sad
Potato
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 04:56
by Fontenette
Joined on Wed, May 31 2006, Omni Present, Posts 59
Angry Shame!!!!!!!!!!!!
Logic Pro 7.2.3
Mac Pro 3.3 Quad-Core Processor, 12GB RAM
Mac Pro 3.0 Dual-Core, 8GB RAM
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 05:13
by Beaswax
Joined on Thu, Oct 06 2005, Posts 40
Fontenette...relax!!
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 05:17
by Beaswax
Joined on Thu, Oct 06 2005, Posts 40
Seriously though. That sucks!!

The upgrade should be %50 or more for people that have used your product and help promote it and give it a good name. People have spent close to $10,000 for all of the upgrades...horizon series.

Hopefully you'll rethink that...
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 05:26
by Scott Munson
Joined on Wed, Aug 31 2005, Posts 26
When I upgraded from my Kontakt player (which came with GPO) to Kontakt 2 I paid $250 and got a 15 GB library with it -
NOW THAT'S AN UPGRADE!
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 05:39
by Fontenette
Joined on Wed, May 31 2006, Omni Present, Posts 59
Beaswax, I know you feel my pain and my anger. All I can do is "just write" man; just write.
Logic Pro 7.2.3
Mac Pro 3.3 Quad-Core Processor, 12GB RAM
Mac Pro 3.0 Dual-Core, 8GB RAM
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 05:43
by Nobody
Joined on Sun, Nov 27 2005, Posts 14
Hello,

I just registering to give my opinion ! Because iam in VIP program from the fisrt day !

I Bought the First Edition --> Upgraded to Pro Edition package
After what i bought :
Saxophones I
Epic Horns
French Oboe
Woodwind Ensembles
Chamber Strings
I was planified to buy Solo and Harps Soon !

I considere thats is not a cheap price for a independant musician.
and i only want say that i totally agree with (Christian Marcussen & Edamilton). I think we all play the game with the VSL Team !

(Sorry for my Poor English Surpriseops: )
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 09:18
by imusic
Joined on Mon, Nov 17 2003, Zürich, Los Angeles, Posts 34
Am I right or do I need help with the price?

I own the complete PRO package and the chamber strings plus some more,...

Is my price now 5300.00 Euro minus 3790.00 Euro minus 565.00 Euro (945.00Euro)
or Am i completely wrong? If this is the case it would be more than fair, if not I am clueless (everything up to 2000 Euro is ok)!

cheers, imusic
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 10:03
by Chinablu
Joined on Tue, Jul 19 2005, Milano, Italy, Posts 147
Billy Rubin wrote:

This is about the worst business practice I've ever encountered from a company!


As far as I know, Apple does not offer upgrade paths to the old users of their OS...

Devil
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 10:41
by Chris
Joined on Fri, Feb 14 2003, Sweden, Posts 46
Based on the information given in the 2 VIP-price threads and the prices shown in the shop, i've done a basic caluculation on the Chamber Strings.

There are 3 options how you could end up having the Chamber Strings VI Extended Version (VI ext ver):

New user:

VI std ver + VI ext ver = €495 + €595 = € 1080

User having bought Horizon Chamber Strings at normal price:

Hz CS + VI std ver + VI ext ver = €815 +€495 +€30 = €1340

User buying Horizon Chamber Strings at reduced Holiday price:

Hz CS + VI std ver + VI ext ver = €530 + €495 +€30 = €1055

The conclusions are:

[list:372d207171]- a user who entered the VIP program at an early stage - with the promise not to have to pay twice for the same sample - will have to pay €285 more than a new user who now gets into the VIP program. That would in that case be the price for the VI itself.

- a user that now buys Hz Chamber Strings at reduced price will end up paying €25 less than a user buying the VI ext vers next year.[/list:u:372d207171]
Assuming no cost for the VI itself, it is the "Holiday price user" that really gets the VIP-pricing. The VIP-promise to the "old user" (never pay twice) is then not valid any more.

Assuming the VI is worth €285, the "old user" gets the VIP pricing, while the "Holiday price user" will get €285 in rebate. But for the "old user", the price for the VI increases with the number of packages you'd buy, which doesn't seem reasonable.

Would that be an accurate description?

Cheers,

Chris
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 10:43
by Mobius
Joined on Mon, Jun 06 2005, Brighton, U.K., Posts 133
Chinablu wrote:
Billy Rubin wrote:

This is about the worst business practice I've ever encountered from a company!


As far as I know, Apple does not offer upgrade paths to the old users of their OS...

Devil


You do get a discount from Apple if you upgrade a species of Mac OS, but I think it's relatively small.
Posted on Sun, Nov 27 2005 11:08
by Mobius
Joined on Mon, Jun 06 2005, Brighton, U.K., Posts 133
Actually I wasn't quite correct in my last post.

This is from Apple's FAQ on Tiger:

Quote:
Is there a way to upgrade from Panther to Tiger without paying?
If you purchased a computer on or after April 12th 2005, you are eligible for our Up-to-Date program. The software is free; you pay just £11.99 for shipping and handling.


So it seems their upgrade deals are dependant on when you bought their OS. Other than P+P, it's a free upgrade, but only if you bought it from April 12th onwards. If you clicked on the purchase button at 5 seconds to midnight on April 11th, then you're well and truly shafted!

Personally I think time dependant upgrade deals are less fair than VSL's VIP program.
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