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Most Wanted New Articulations
Last post Sun, Feb 17 2008 by el-russo, 115 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 05:01
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
Duduk, and other ethnic winds (perf legato, pp, mp and forte)
I think VSL would knock this one out of the ball park - I'd pay $500 for the Duduk Alone.
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 06:02
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
These are all very nice suggestions but don't you think we should focus on the essentials? Therefore I suggest the complete set of foghorns starting with the Queen Mary.
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 07:31
by RainerL
Joined on Wed, Jul 13 2005, Germany, Posts 79

My 2 wishes:

-Choir

-E-Bass

Best, Rainer

Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 09:08
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 770

Euphonium sustain with vibrato.

Alto saxhorn in Eb (British Brass band tenor horn)

David Carter https://sorabjiorchestralmusic.wordpress.com/
https://www.youtube.com/...UCoEithAEjsd4IBViwsfQFwQ

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro7, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:04
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
JohnnyMarks wrote:
I'd like suggest that three players is a better number than 2-player desks or 1-player benches. Three is the minimum for a genuine ensemble sound, and I'd rather be mixing ensemble sounds than trying to create them out of non-ensemble recordings.

I think that if there was another Solo violin, it would make it unnecessary to have any more small sections, because the possibilities would have increased for layering with Chamber Strings to give a small section sound.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
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Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:56
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
Guy wrote:
Therefore I suggest the complete set of foghorns starting with the Queen Mary.


Looking forward to getting on that boat in the not too distant future.-------- I've no idea about extra articulations - the AP strings may need a lot more and the AP II strings may require a certain amount of ironing out in some legato transitional areas. ------ Why not go completely crazy and record individual string desks in groups of two and have them placed by MIR in their correct positions. :()))()(())) --- I don't particularly care for modernism in terms of releasing samples that are pre - played sound effects - because I would probably use them.
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 15:56
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 May I suggest a sampled potato?

Many do not know that, with an appropriate drill and drill bits, one can create a  flared bore and finger holes to make the potato into a unique tuberwind instrument. (This works best with raw Russet or Yukon Gold potatoes.) Then there is the bowed potato whose quiet hiss can add a new dimension to any orchestral texture. It can even be played sul ponticello (although many have difficulty in finding the ponticello upon which to be sul. . ) Samples of wind powered and bowed potatoes (of different sizes and varieties) would, I think, be a great addition to the VSL library.

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
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MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
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Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 17:18
by KMuzzey
Joined on Tue, Jul 22 2003, Los Angeles, CA, Posts 270
I mentioned this idea ages ago, but I'll throw it out there again. This would be really handy for quick mockups AND for creating an instant sense of "space" in a mix:

Position the entire Appassionata Strings players on stage, and have them do a flautando for each note (all playing together), and then each major and minor chord, where they're all playing at once. That sort of rich, warm, shimmery sound would be a killer bonus feature with the next string library that comes out, whatever that may be.

OR... it would also make a great download product.

Kerry
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 18:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5710

In the violins, with the Orchestral, Appassionata, Chamber and Solo already recorded, the two additions of second solo and two-player desks would allow the possibility of completely separate sample-sets of players numbering solo (with variation), 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30 and some higher numbers made by combining Orchestral/Appassionata.  This allows completely realistic divisi.  Especially if the programming genius that has led to Vienna Ensemble is used to create an automated divisi tool Cool

BTW I think Guy and Dietz have hit upon something very significant with the fog horn/cowbell concept.  But I will need an AB switched Legato-Portamento Foghorn with release samples as well as a 5-velocity Tenor Cowbell for the Double Concerto I am now planning.  And PLEASE - I would prefer an Italian Foghorn and a Scandinavian Cowbell - probably Icelandic - as they are far more espressivo for the Neoromantic concerto style I specialize in when writing Double Concerti. 

Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 19:53
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
William wrote:

I think Guy and Dietz have hit upon something very significant with the fog horn/cowbell concept.  But I will need an AB switched Legato-Portamento Foghorn with release samples as well as a 5-velocity Tenor Cowbell for the Double Concerto I am now planning.  And PLEASE - I would prefer an Italian Foghorn and a Scandinavian Cowbell - probably Icelandic - as they are far more espressivo for the Neoromantic concerto style I specialize in when writing Double Concerti. 


William, I think the more expressive one you're talking about is the E flat foghorn. It was Benjamen Foghorn who invented the instrument in 1894, but wasn't until 1947 that it became a favorite among all professional musicians and fans around the world. We all know the Foghorn Adagio in Mahler's symphony of the Sea, I get goose bumps every time I listening to it.



Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 21:23
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206
William wrote:
2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30

I'm sorry that I have to remind you that layering samples does not add up linear. 14 + 14 legato and sustain ain't sounding bigger than the 20 in App nor is 14 + 6 (of CS) sounding the same - IMHO. Yet it extends the layering possibilities a lot and also opens another door to different expressiveness than CS or SS alone could.

Kazoos!

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 11:48
by mosso
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005, London, England, Posts 376

Just my tuppence worth...

Would like to see a second solo violin (as has been mentioned already) for string quartets, ethnic instruments would also be great - although how you'd possibly decide which ones is beyond me (the harmonium is a decent accordian substitute so at least that one's been dealt with - kinda), and I'd also go for atonal techniques too.

However it could be a long time before I have enough money to get round to them after buying all the other VI's I'm after!

Martin 

Martin Thornton
<a href="http://www.mosso.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.mosso.co.uk</a>
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 14:12
by orchestralalala
Joined on Sat, Nov 17 2007, Posts 76

+1 for second solo violin

- Electric Guitar - (a strat or jazzmaster ...) but this time please apply your sample wizardry to a DI signal!!!!! I mean there are just so many reasons why having a DI sound would be preferable, for example:

- getting a clean/ jazz sound for a start!

- putting though your own amp sims

- even reamping through a real guitar cab

- just, well, having control over the sound for goodness sake! ;)

Also different pick up positions would be good - but no need for all that whammy bar stuff though! ;)

Seeing as how VSL is orchestrally orientated I do not understand how you could possibly release an electric guitar that sounds (to my ears) so at odds with a solo/ ensemble/ orchestral sound or 'acoustic instruments' in genreral AND AT THE SAME TIME be also unsuitable for most (in my opinion) rock contexts and certainly ALL jazz contexts.
 

OK I think I have got that out of my system, rant over! ;)

- Electric Bass - same deal as with guitar above - DI only - something like a Fender Jazz bass would be very nice.

  

- Acoustic Bass (the fretted, guitar style body type)  - I really am enjoying using the new upright bass VI - an acoustic bass along the same lines would be also most welcome - if a little indulgent....

- Steel String Acoustic (a Martin D-18v perhaps!?) - even if strumming was confined to a small set of very limited 'perf strum' patches, I would still love to have the ability to play finger / plectrum picked styles on a steel string.

- Mandolin - same comments as for Steel String Acoustic above

- Lots more percussion! Industrial / unusual / ethnic / folk ...... bring it on.

- Jazz Drum Kit - but ONLY if you think you can offer something better or significanly different to the main players (BFD and the like).
Otherwise I wouldn't want you to waste time attempting one. Personally what I would really like is for you (or some one) to record a jazz kit (I mean old school NOT fusion!) expansion pack for use with BFD (as Platinum samples have done) recorded in the silent stage so it can be easily integrated with the VSL instruments. This is perhaps pure indulgence - I have hundreds of GB's of kits already - but what the hell ! ..... if you could do some of your magic editing with the ride cymbal to make it play authentically (authentic swells, 'roar', integrating bow and edge hits etc) then that would make it worth buying alone IMO! (or just release a 15 GB 'ride cymbal VI'!)

moving now into the realms of fantasy .....

- A Surbahar would be very nice, I would like to say sitar as well but I think that might be just taking the P a bit too much! (in terms of being unable to perform like the real thing) .... but a surbahar which is meant to be played more slowly might just about work out OK. Sliding notes would be no different to what you have done already with leg/port. Bent notes (which on a surbahar can reach up to an octave!) could be given their own patches so that if played legato could allow small melodies to be played in this 'meend' style without further attacks - and with X-fade and expression control could fade out and so could sound quite authentic. I think?!

Add the easy to implement bass / chikari / sympathetic strings and there you have it! Although distinctly 'Indian sounding' on the one hand, the surbahar sound is also potentially very 'broad ranging'  (IMO) .. it can sound rather like a cello in many ways, perhaps even richer, its long sustains make it seem almost bowed in the low notes  .... who wouldn't want an instrument like that! :)

  

chromatic harmonica .......... Seriously I would love this!

- oh and for obligatory joke suggeston -  mobile phone ringtones - for added authenticity (X-fade from inside pocket/ purse to handheld) + audience 'tsk' samples. ;)

No rush....  like some others here I still have a long way to go before getting the rest of the main library ... 

Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 19:26
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5710

Polarbear - I agree that a two note chord played by Chamber Strings for example does not sound just like Orchestral strings split into two, automatically.  There are a lot of timbral differences between these different collections, inevitably due to the recording process.  I know that all too well, because I am doing extensive divisi these days, and trying to be as realistic as possible and avoid thickening the sound with too many players. The numbers I was writing are simply the non-phasing combinations that are possible.  I would never layer 14 plus 14 orchestral violins, for divisi because it would be a very thick sound.  However, if you layer chamber strings with solo, it can be extremely effective.  Also, creating divisi with different combinations such as several solos can sound perfect, but only with limited situations right now. So if you did have those extra violins, it would increase the possibilities wonderfully.  On top of that I have noticed that for a simple line, with no divisi at all, layering solo violin with Appassionata violins - ON SEPARATE TRACKS WITH DELIBERATE MISTIMING - is the single best violin ensemble sound possible right now with samples.  It is better than just one track of Appassionata playing the same line.  So again the extra violins I mentioned would increase the espressivo possibilites immensely as well as enabling purely realistic combinations of players on divisi.

BTW on the two player desks it would be good to have legato that was slightly slower than the regular Orchestral legato but slightly faster than the portamento.  A highly espressivo teneramente legato. So that when layering that with Appassionata and a solo for example one could obtain different speeds of legato transition that would constantly vary due to humanized mistiming between tracks.

Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 21:12
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
William wrote:
ON SEPARATE TRACKS WITH DELIBERATE MISTIMING - is the single best violin ensemble sound possible right now with samples. 


But Bill - can you also DETUNE them in VI?
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 21:28
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Yes you can.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 21:50
by jbm
Joined on Fri, Jan 16 2004, Posts 1159
Well, as I've said many times before, I'd _love_ any extended techniques VSL was willing to sample (and no worries of modernism here, Paul - such techniques have been used by composers from all sorts of "isms"! ;-) ). Big ones that come to mind? Flute breath tone. Strings scratch tone (subtone). Smack tone. Timbral trills. Multiphonics, where possible/effective (might need some sort of chart in the manual).
And I think it would be great if the multiphonics were recorded with absolute "honesty", in the sense that the different dynamic levels of multiphonics would reflect the relative success of the multiphonic to speak (since most multiphonics only "work" at certain dynamics). That is, if the multiphonic fails to speak at a certain dynamic, the note would just be a regular sustain note. This could have the added bonus of serving as a reference for those of us who work with live musicians, to help us avoid writing multiphonics at impossible dynamics - which could be handy, if you don't have direct access to the player. (Though I realize that even "playable" mulitphonics for one player are impossible to another player, on another instrument... anyway... blah, blah...)

I'd also really love to have *individual string* articulations (and legatos) for each string. And by "strings", I literally mean _strings_, as in G D A E, not Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses... It would be great to be able to take advantage the actual colour of the string now and then (particularly for higher parts played on the lower strings), so to have a full sampled range on the G string, D string, and so on. I know you can get a certain amount of this effect on the Solo Strings using the "sul" articulations, but that's a somewhat limited application of what I'm talking about.

There's loads of stuff I'd probably request in addition to the above, but I think those are my big wishes.

Cheers, William and All.


J.
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 22:02
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
William, you sure know how to get a good discussion going with one question!
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 22:16
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

jbm wrote:

I'd also really love to have *individual string* articulations (and legatos) for each string. And by "strings", I literally mean _strings_, as in G D A E, not Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses... It would be great to be able to take advantage the actual colour of the string now and then (particularly for higher parts played on the lower strings), so to have a full sampled range on the G string, D string, and so on. I know you can get a certain amount of this effect on the Solo Strings using the "sul" articulations, but that's a somewhat limited application of what I'm talking about.

J.

Actually, now that you mention it, so would I. The Sul patches just don't cut it, because there is always a certain amount of portamento, which is not the same thing.



DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jan 15 2008 23:01
by enquiries_29321
Joined on Fri, Jul 20 2007, Posts 8
More dynamic layers for everything please. m
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