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Key Switching Articulations in Logic, smartest way?
Last post Sun, Oct 19 2014 by A.G, 27 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Oct 16 2014 23:34
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
A.G wrote:
Your workaround works in the "old way" - have you heard about the Cubase Expression Maps?

Are you talking to me ?

I would love to have Logic Expression Maps, this is THE  solution.

You are doing a great job but we want to be able to do the same in the Logic score, and today it is not possible because in the macro you cannot deal with Meta events 

What you have done and what I have done is a "do-it-yourself" because the develloper at Emagic and now at Apple are stupid enough not wanting to add an equivalence of the "Cubase Expression Maps" in Logic

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
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Posted on Fri, Oct 17 2014 15:25
by FredB
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2006, Montreal, Posts 669
Cyril wrote:
What you have done and what I have done is a "do-it-yourself" because the develloper at Emagic and now at Apple are stupid enough not wanting to add an equivalence of the "Cubase Expression Maps" in Logic

I agree with you for that but it's the same for all others DAW (Pro Tools, Live, Studio One, Reaper, etc.). They don't have expression mapping either.

The day Logic will have a proper articulation switching system I will come back to it. It's the only reason I use Cubase right now. 

Fred

Master: Imac I7 32Gb Late 2013 - - OsX 10.13.6
Slave: Corei7 6800k 64gb - Win 10
Soft: Logic X 10.4.4 - ProTools 12.x - VE Pro 6 - VI Pro 2 - MIR
Posted on Sat, Oct 18 2014 17:17
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 24
Cyril wrote:
I would love to have Logic Expression Maps, this is THE  solution.
Definitely, the Logic AM-PRO offers true Logic Expression Maps which are not "do-it-yourself" - it is a third party product like any other third party AU, VST etc. Each Map supports custom MIDI Channel, KS, PC and up to 4 CC assignments. The Audiogrocery site "Detail Video 3" & "Quick Step Video 1" show that clearly. The difference is that the AM-PRO maps are implemented into the Track Based Automation (TBA) not into the MIDI editors like in Cubase.

Cyril wrote:
You are doing a great job but we want to be able to do the same in the Logic score.

As I mentioned above the AM-PRO focus is TBA which is much better because you do not have to select different MIDI regions open MIDI editors etc. In the same time you can work in parallel with any MIDI editor. For example you can dock the Score Editor, compose music and draw Articulation Map automation in the Main window where the Maps are shown with custom text Articulation Names. In this scenario the Score "is clear" for export etc - there are no Articulation MIDI events inside the regions etc. You can type and create Articulation symbols in the Score as well which do not mess with the TBA Maps. The Logic Playhead synchronizes the Score window and the Main window so there are no problems.
Posted on Sat, Oct 18 2014 19:48
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
A.G wrote:

How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra 

Specifying Articulation in the score is THE solution

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Tags: latency
Posted on Sat, Oct 18 2014 21:27
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 24
Cyril wrote:
How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra
This was answered in my previous reply:
You can type and create Articulation symbols in the Score as well which do not mess with the TBA Maps.
I.e you can work in parallel with the Score Editor and the AM-PRO Articulation maps.
1. You can create Professional Scores with text symbol articulation names for real orchestra (in the Score Editor).
2. You can create AM-PRO Maps according to the Score ones and draw/automate them in the Logic Main window Automation according to the Articulation names you have created in the Score. As I mentioned before you can dock the Score Editor and work simultaneously with the Score Editor and with the Main Window (Maps Automation lane)



Note: It is quite possible if you want to create a specific Articulation in the Score which will be 100% playable by a real orchestra but your Virtual Instrument may not have this specific Articulation. In this scenario you can create a Map which recalls alternative sound patch/articulation which is not dependent from the Score (the Articulation Names can match in both editors). Hope see why TBA is best. It gives much more alternatives...
Posted on Sun, Oct 19 2014 04:18
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
A.G wrote:
Cyril wrote:
How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra
This was answered in my previous reply:

Do you have a video for this ? You should not have to enter articulation changes twice , also you should be able to change articulation just for one note 

I noticed you had 16 midi channels where you define the instrument name, can you have multiple 16 midi channels, my template has 100 instruments

How many keyswitch can you have per instrument ?

Can you send 2 notes for a keyswitch i.e.  C0 C1, C0 D1, ......D0 C1, D0 D1...... (you need this to have access to the presets levell II of VSL instruments)

When I write a score I have one line per instrument, I dont have a line that contains many instruments

What you have done is great but you need to have access to the Meta data of the score to be able to have a real "LOGIC EXPRESSION MAPS" from the score

I have put this in the Core audio develloper forum, but .....

Ask for it, more people will ask more there is chance we will have it in 2101 ;(

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Oct 19 2014 22:06
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 24
Cyril wrote:
You should not have to enter articulation changes twice , also you should be able to change articulation just for one note

Trust me, the Score Editor is just a Score editor which will never support articulation assignments of the upcoming Sample Libraries. Each developer invents supper extra Combos to recall a given articulation which is very specific for its Virtual Instrument Library. This requires regular updates similar to the "Antivirus" definition updates (just an example). Meaning that many DAW developers prefer to stay away for the moment regarding the "Ultra Expression Maps" which will work forever... So let's have a classic Score Editor for creating Professional scores for the live orchestras, bands, acapella groups etc and look for a good Articulation Mapper tool for creating Articulation Maps for the today Market Sample Library instruments.
Namely this Articulation tool can be updated regularly. Audiogrocery is doing its best to update the A.G Toolkit PRO to the daily customer wishes and recommendations!
You can change articulation for one note with the AM-PRO! The upcoming version (see below) supports real-time Transport jumping and perfect Articulation chasing during real time jumping from one bar point to another.




Cyril wrote:
I noticed you had 16 midi channels where you define the instrument name, can you have multiple 16 midi channels, my template has 100 instruments.

You have misunderstood that! You can define the Instrument MIDI Channel Name in the AM-PRO preferences if you use a Multi-Timbral Instrument (this is just an extra visual preference). You can not nest more than 16 MIDI channels inside a Muti-Timbral Instrument DAW Channel Strip that's why you create multiple Multitibral Instrument instances (Ch.1-16), or create Mono Timbral tracks inserting the AM-PRO into each track. There are lots of AM-PRO professional users and testers who use more than 120-150 Mono Timbral Tracks and they report perfect AM-PRO behavior. By the way Logic handles better with Mono-Timbral instances regarding the CPU core usage (this is well commented in several Logic forums).

Cyril wrote:
Can you send 2 notes for a keyswitch i.e. C0 C1, C0 D1, ......D0 C1, D0 D1...... (you need this to have access to the presets levell II of VSL instruments)

Yes, the Am-PRO can be updated to push 4 or 100 KS per Map (no problem). A few A.G users reported that they want to have two KS notes to make Combos (C2+G2; C2+G#2 etc) for the Samplemodeling Instruments. The upcoming A.G Logic Toolkit PRO v3.0 is under test period. Several top worldwide testers are trying it out now... Stay tuned!



The main topic is Key Switching Articulations in Logic, smartest way? As far I remember you contacted me in the past regarding the Environment Score Meta's or something like that? I know that you are an Environment Score (Meta) fan publishing some amateur Youtube Environment Templates tutors - right?. I fill that you are trying to be smart regarding any Logic Articulation Maps (Expression maps) third party developments. Keep in mind that the Meta events or the Environment will be never updated - there are many reasons for that be sure.


If you still think that the Score Metas or the "old way" Environment Templates are the smartest way regarding this Topic title please publish why they are best.



Rejoice
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