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Bernard Herrmann - Unconventional orchestrations
Last post Mon, Aug 13 2012 by kleinholgi, 92 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 23:40
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

 At that same page for the On Dangerous Ground cue there is now the Scene d'amor Vertigo cue played by L.A. Philharmonic that is a fantastic performance.  Tremendous strings!  Essa Pekonnen put out a great compilation of Herrmann a while back that incidentally included the unused music from Torn Curtain with full orchestration of twelve flutes, nine trombones, 8 horns, massive percussion.  

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 11:19
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371

Yes I've listened to that performance many times and it's brilliantly played.

Posted on Sun, Feb 13 2011 15:15
by knievel
Joined on Thu, May 28 2009, Newcastle, England, Posts 80

kleinholgi mentioning Speilbergs Duel...

I love that film! Plus it was shot on Super 8mm !  Super cool... Cool

But a whole feature film of tension made out of, what is essentially, a cast of just two.

Fab.

Posted on Sun, Feb 13 2011 18:03
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600
knievel wrote:

a whole feature film of tension made out of, what is essentially, a cast of just two.

 

Not strictly true, as we never seen the truck driver, so kind of a solo performance !

Posted on Sun, Feb 13 2011 22:20
by kleinholgi
Joined on Sat, May 09 2009, Posts 171

Duell is a nice example for what´s needed to make an interesting movie :

1. Good story

2. Good actors

Everything beyond that is optionally.

That doesn´t mean, there would be no need for special effects. Terminator or Matrix brought fantastic, new ,mindblowing effects to the cinema, perfectly supporting the action and the actors.

But still, the main task is to tell a nice story. So many movies today just focus on the latest technology, but miss out on the plot.

Take Avatar. O.K. 3d was nice, but the story - I can´t even remember.

Sigourney Weaver and some blue puppets running around...nothing to be worth talking about in 10 years.

Compare that with Sigourney in Alien I or II and get ready to freak out.

"We are on the express elevator to hell - going down"

Posted on Sun, Feb 13 2011 23:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

Duel was not in Super 8.  It was an ABC TV movie so it would be shot in 35mm.  But I agree it is good because it was so minimalist, completely unlike his later films.  

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 00:22
by kleinholgi
Joined on Sat, May 09 2009, Posts 171

Yes, I was also wondering, for 8mm the quality appears to be too good.

According to Wikipedia the original version was filmed on 16mm for TV. For the cinema they reshot a few scenes and copied the material to 35mm standard.

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 03:12
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582
andyjh wrote:
knievel wrote:

a whole feature film of tension made out of, what is essentially, a cast of just two.

 

Not strictly true, as we never seen the truck driver, so kind of a solo performance !

They spent weeks scouring southern California looking for just the right truck.  Speilberg wanted a truck that not only looked intimidating and ominous but had a personality all it's own, or his own.  Aside from a beefy arm protruding out of the cab every once in a while you never see the driver.  In other words the truck was a character.  In a way, Kneivel is correct the truck was casted as a character.  


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 05:11
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

I don't believe anything on wikipedia which is an amateurish bullshit replacement for what SHOULD be a professional peer-reviewed encyclopedia,  but yes, you're right I noticed elsewhere it was shot on 16mm, which was extremely unusual for a network movie at that time.  It's funny how I truly feel without trying to be obnoxious that it is the only Spielberg movie I like.  With all the gobs of money and infinite resources and production values thrown at those films he has made since, I still like that gritty little thing much more than any of his later ones.

Speaking of 8mm, there was no professional film stock at the time, just reversal Kodachrome, Ektachrome and black and white reversal.  (though Kodachrome was a beautiful film stock unfortunately no longer made.)  Also, no really professional cameras.   Nowadays they make some color negative film for super 8 but it is so expensive and the quality is so much lower than 16mm due to the smaller size why would you use it?  I do like super8 though, especially black and white.  I guess this is major OT but I love talking about small film gauges.  Do you know that 9.5 mm is still made?  Now that would be super cool to use. 

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 09:50
by knievel
Joined on Thu, May 28 2009, Newcastle, England, Posts 80

Yes - I think I stand corrected. It was almost def shot on 16mm.

I think I'm so used to watching Duel on 8mm through my Elmo projector I got it into my head somehow that is was shot on Super8!

You view it over 2 reels! So me and my wee audience get an 'ice cream break' when we have Super 8 film nights!

Why can't they have ice cream breaks nowadays??!  I know it completely spoils the film, but hey, when I was little I used to look forward to the ice cream break soooooo much!  PizzaMovieBig Smile

Did Dennis Hopper initially want to release a 12 hour version of Easy Rider though??!! With just hours of driving shots with cool music played over the top??! hehehe

You'd need lots of ice cream for that! 

(And lots of [ahem!] 'special cigarettes')

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 18:45
by kleinholgi
Joined on Sat, May 09 2009, Posts 171

"Why can't they have ice cream breaks nowadays??! "

The break was the best part of Titanic Big Smile

In some older films they still offer the traditional interruption even on DVD, e.g. Metropolis or 2001.

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 19:00
by kleinholgi
Joined on Sat, May 09 2009, Posts 171

"it is the only Spielberg movie I like"

O.K., Schindlers Liste IMO should also be mentioned, because it is so anti Jurassic Parc and features a good plot, sensational actors and extremely atmospheric photography as well as an unbelievable soundtrack.

Even Jurassic Parc could have been such an interesting movie, because the book and the story is very nice. The SFX alone had been worth watching it, wouldn´t it be, that they insisted on these typical Hollywood family compatible actor half-comedy style.

Just throw out the children and everyone else asking for ketchup & Coke. Cast better actors and for christ´s sake no dogs to be saved.

At the same time fire the fat Burger eating programmer. What´s the use of such characters ?

Some marketing experts might have their reasons for going that way.

Posted on Mon, Feb 14 2011 19:15
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

knievel wrote:

I think I'm so used to watching Duel on 8mm through my Elmo projector I got it into my head somehow that is was shot on Super8!

 

You have a super 8 print of Duel?  

Posted on Thu, Feb 17 2011 14:36
by knievel
Joined on Thu, May 28 2009, Newcastle, England, Posts 80
William wrote:

knievel wrote:

I think I'm so used to watching Duel on 8mm through my Elmo projector I got it into my head somehow that is was shot on Super8!

 

You have a super 8 print of Duel?  

Yep!

Well... my friends copy really. We had stacks of Super 8mm movies at the time which we used to put on Super 8mm movie nights.

We even used to have a few 8mm reels of 'Pearl and Dean' UK movie adverts that we used to show before the films, just to create that nostalgic feeling of when we were kids going to the 'flicks'!!  [flicks = British term for movies!]

Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylXLWInAjpI

I think there's an old American Coke advert in there mixed with British adverts and British 'local' adverts relevant to where the film was being shown.

Did you used to get similar old cinema adverts like this in the U.S ??

Actually just thinking about it - I used to love the adverts just as much as the ice cream breaks!! hehehe and people nowadays actually go to watch the film ! How weird!  Wink

WOW! I'M REALLY OFF TOPIC NOW!! I've ruined what was a good thread and am now just talking about ice cream and adverts!!  Ha! Zip it!

Anyhoo William - perhaps try some Super 8mm forums if you need Super 8mm prints of fetures: http://8mmforum.film-tec...matebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=2

knievel

Posted on Thu, Feb 17 2011 16:36
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

well that is interesting knievel. I remember the super8 prints of a long time ago - shortened versions of features that you could buy.  "Blackhawk Films" was a company that sold them.  I didn't realize that people were still using them so that is very cool.  Screening a film on your own projector is way different than watching a video.   btw I have a whole cabinet of super 8 equipment I would never get rid of, including a silent projector originally bought for home movies from a department store, but built like a tank better than pro equipment of today with a housing made of black STEEL.  They truly do not make them like that anymore!   It still works like a charm thirty-five years later.

Posted on Fri, Feb 18 2011 04:49
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5720

Speaking of Herrmann, it is interesting to compare the two cues he wrote for Jason and the Argonauts - the battle with the skeletons - and the "fight" with the single skeleton in Seventh Voyage of Sinbad.   Here is a good example of how he was too good to simply repeat something, not only avoiding stealing from another composer BUT FROM HIS OWN MUSIC!  It is almost exactly the same scene - a fight with animated skeletons -  but done quite differently in musical terms and equally effectively.

Posted on Sat, Feb 26 2011 18:21
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371

The 'Hydra's Teeth' scene with the skeletons is sensational work from Ray Harryhausen and Bernard Herrmann. No one could get the woodwinds  to do that apart from Herrmann. It's the same old thing about sitting in front of a scene that has no music and putting that together and lifting what could have become the almost comical into the quite gripping.

On another note - I am deeply disturbed by Hollywood's obsessional output of romcoms. This is a cynical exploitation of the fucking obese and someone should ban them. And romcoms too, of course. 

Good evening!!!!

Posted on Sat, Feb 26 2011 19:40
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1110

Romantic Comedy = Castration Ceremony. No exceptions. I always said to women I dated (briefly of course if they enjoyed such tripe), every time they dragged me to one of those flicks, they HAD to sit through a van Damme, Seagal, or (for the persistent ones) Norris video the following time. Yes, I had to sit through them as well, but this worked like a charm! After a couple of times, we always went to something we both wanted to see, and they resorted to seeing those bile-oozing cinematic masterstrokes with their girlfriends instead.

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Sun, Feb 27 2011 01:31
by kleinholgi
Joined on Sat, May 09 2009, Posts 171

Romantic Comedy = Castration Ceremony.

*LOL*

Women just love this kind of stuff, we can´t help it.

They always are on the search for either romantic or comedy elements in movies, even if there aren´t any, in the meantime missing what the story is about....

It is always funny to see that they have no clue when it comes to  Star Wars vs Star Trek . " Ah Star Trek , that was the movie with the ugly black guy ?.? "

" No, darling that´s the other one.....". Wink

If we want to see comedy, we watch comedy, but usually that´s not Hollywood´s business.

Here´s a good one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw

If she can laugh about that,she might be well prepared for the original movie.

Otheriwse - Flashdance as a compromise - only the 5 minutes which count of course :)

Posted on Sun, Feb 27 2011 11:09
by knievel
Joined on Thu, May 28 2009, Newcastle, England, Posts 80

Come on dudes! Embrace the Rom coms for what they are!!

Sorry folks... but film making is story telling. Rom Coms are just another way of telling a story - some of which [wait for it... shock! horror!!] are quite good.

Please don't look down your nose at films, while at the same time referencing Star Trek.

Perhaps a new term of 'film snobbery' could be used here?!

Perhaps I could quite easily have the same attitude towards your 'great films' because it's not classic film noir or hasn't been directed by Truffuat or Godard.

Cool

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