I know VSL has changed the packaging somewhat, but I bought Special Edition and Special Edition Plus over a year ago, so my collection includes the most needed articulations for 1-all major orchestral instruments (strings, wind, percussion), 2-solo strings, and 3-chamber strings. (It also has a very limited starter set of articulations for Appassionata--more like a demo for this.)
Compared to the Hollywood Strings collection, I find VSL more pristine in sound, easier to set up, faster to load, and much more efficient on system resources.
My issue is getting natural legato. Example: Last night using Chamber Violins+, I created a simple line of two eight notes followed by a quarter (D# above middle C to E to F#, if that matters). It sounds very unnatural and does not flow. The transitions between whole and half notes is OK. The tempo was not fast: only 108 BPM.
I have had similar frustration with the Orchestral Strings.
Is there something very basic I am missing?
I loaded the standard (factory) matrix and used the correct keyswitch. In the VSL interface I can see the articulations changing so it is not a problem with the wrong articulation playing.
I am running VSL as a plug-in in Sonar X1 on a powerful 64-bit machine (eight-core, 12 GB RAM, optimized for audio).
Thanks.
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Legato Problems with SE/SE+
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DG, I will try to post an audio sample in a day or so, but your comment intrigues me. The legato sample seems to be a single sample: that is, it does not show a velocity XFade with another sample. Despite this, should I be turning some switch on just to make the legato sample sound right? I HOPE that is the case because that would be an easy fix. Maybe you could describe the swtich location it so I am sure i am doing the right thing. Thanks for your help.
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In the Perform tab of the VI Player, the fader on the left has a button at the top. This should be lit. When it is, you will find that dynamics are performed by moving the fader up and down. Without this button active, your string legato samples will probably sound very lumpy when you change note.
DG
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DG, Thanks, that's great. But, and excuse my dumbness, are you saying I should get a great improvement just lighting the button, or do I need to manually or programmatically move the fader during performance? i think you mean to light the button and set the fader at an appropriate place. Also, about the MONO v GLOBAL and overlap, how much, if at all, should I overlap notes? I have been making the notes "touch;" that is one note ends on a tick and the next note start on the very next tick—as though you were playing perfect piano legato. I seem to recall trying to overlap notes by a tick or two and don't recall if that helped. What do you recommend?
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@William said:
One thing you should check is in Advanced settings on the instrument, the legato instrument is set to MONO legato. It defaults to GLOBAL legato and - as I wrote on another thread - that can cause problems if you don't have just the right overlap.
Bill, this option doesn't exist in the current version of Vienna Instruments (AFAIK); only in Vienna Instruments Pro.
DG
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DG, Don't want you to take a lot of your time to answer :-) but I am curious if the purchased Pro Player or whatever it is called would be worthwhile for me. I am mainly adding orchestration to pop music (think more Broadway or late Beatles style with sometimes extensive orchestration) using Sonar X1. I do a film or TV thing once in a while but not often. The money for the player is not that much--I just try to avoid confusing myself or complicating my set-up with plug-ins I don't need. If you tink this would be a great benefit to getting better realism though, I will order it. For the record, I am extremely impressed with the efficiency of the VSL matrix system and the free player.
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@bhartmann said:
DG, Don't want you to take a lot of your time to answer 😊 but I am curious if the purchased Pro Player or whatever it is called would be worthwhile for me. I am mainly adding orchestration to pop music (think more Broadway or late Beatles style with sometimes extensive orchestration) using Sonar X1. I do a film or TV thing once in a while but not often. The money for the player is not that much--I just try to avoid confusing myself or complicating my set-up with plug-ins I don't need. If you tink this would be a great benefit to getting better realism though, I will order it. For the record, I am extremely impressed with the efficiency of the VSL matrix system and the free player.There are specific reasons to buy it. However, I would recommend really getting to know the regular player first, and then see what it doesn't do for you, before upgrading. You may not need any of the extra features.
DG
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@bhartmann said:
OK, X-Fade was not on. I turned it on. Any guidance on the slider? It basically just seems to decrease the overall volume as I move it down. How do I find the right setting for legato? Thanks.There is no right setting. it's all a question of how the music should be phrased. If you are trying to emulate a violin section, that fader should be continually moving with the ebb and flow of the phrase.
However, one thing you need to know; it is not a volume control. The timbre of a string instrument is much more strident when playing loudly (generally speaking) so as you move the fader up and down, not only does the volume change, but the timbre changes as well.
One other thing to note; when velocity xFade is active, the velocity that you play on the keyboard is irrelevant.
DG
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There could be another possible issue or two, though these might be something of a long shot. You mention that you were able to see the articulation changing within the matrix. What articulation were you using prior to the first legato note? Sometimes, if you use a note that is too short for the first note of the phrase, the phrase will not sound natural. The initial note will end, but briefly resound as a transition sample as part of the first legato note. Also, using a legato note for the first note of the phrase can also cause problems, as doing so will cause a transition from the previous note to be played, even at the start of a new phrase.
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About the slider, 1-I was wondering what the meaning of up and down are. I have no idea which way to move it to get a certain effect. The only change I hear is overall volume. If I should be changing it, it would be helpful to know the effect of each direction. Also, when you say it should be constantly moving, will this be automated by the DAW? I wouldn't want to have to manage sliders in multiple VSL instances. 2-In answer to the question, the entire phrase I programmed used legato notes: several half notes followed by the two 8ths and a qtr. Thanks. Also,, I am supposed to voerlap notes a few ticks?
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You know, after reading the manual again and experimenting with the interface, I really don't think the Velocity X-Fade button (light) really has any effect for a single sample. I think this only applies when there are two patches in effect. (Sorry, I don't know how to describe this, but it is possible to set up a matrix so two articulations will cross-fade. I don't think this applies to the basic legato articulation, so I am back to wondering how to make the legatos smoother.) If I wrong, please correct me, but I don't see how Velocity X-Fade applies here and I can't hear any difference. Thanks.
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Hi,
Did you watch the video about Velocity Xfade yet?
Also used quite a lot in the Special Edition Tutorial Videos.
To crossfade between articulations, check out Slot Xfade, also with a video ("Stacking and Layering Patches")!
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
It has been a while since I saw this video so i watched it again. It is extremely helpful for some things, but I do not see how it helps with legato tansitions among eighth notes of relatively constant volume or velocity.
The problem remains that the legato does not sound smooth or natural. Since some people get good results, I feel that I am missing something here. One would expect that simply playing eigth notes in a legato style with a legato patch would give at least reasonably good results.
Vienna is the gold standard for orchestral libraries, so I feel that I have missed some basic direction or someone is foretting to tell me something simple. :-) By the way, this exact problem is why I bought Hollywood Strings, but I would greatly prefer to use VSL for several reasons (cleaner sound, less system resource demand, larger instrument library, etc.).
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Hi,
As you have Special Edition Volume 1&2 including PLUS: Did you check out the Special Edition Tutorial Files? Do you like the legato sounds in there?
I have just sent you demo licenses for Vienna Suite and Vienna Instruments PRO, so you can open ALL arrangements right away.
All software is available in your USER AREA.
These demo licenses work for 30 days/30 starts.
Once the 30 starts are used up, you can recharge them as often as you like by clicking "Maintenance" in the eLicenser Control Center (within 30 days).
Of course adding a little reverb won´t hurt on our instruments. If you like to experiment with the transition sounds, you can use the time-stretching feature in VI PRO and see if that does the right thing for you.
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
Paul, Thank you very much. Yes, I have watched the videos. Since I hear great results some people get VSL, and since it is the gold standard of orchestral libraries, I am frustrated that after in over a year I have not been bale to get a better legato sound. I will try the software (thanks again). I am also sending sample files to a gentleman who has offered to consult: he has an extensive history of VSL orchestration and perhaps he will see what is wrong. Also, I agree about the reverb and typically use Lexicon med-large hall for orchestrations. The problem seems to be the transitions more than the note ends. (Fader automation helps any library with note ends :-).) What I am hearing seems to be envelope restarts like you would get with an older keyboard that had static samples.
