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New MacPro
Last post Sat, Oct 26 2013 by Cyril Blanc, 23 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jun 11 2013 14:46
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649

Hello

I am very surprised that there is no comments !

Did this news took your breath away ?

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Jun 11 2013 16:20
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I think that everyone is possibly underwhelmed by the prospect of a new iBin for their studio.  Wink

D G

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jun 11 2013 17:25
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2370

The technical data looks good Cyril and it takes on 60 gigs of ram. It's supposed to be twice as powerful as current Mac Pro models and is 10 inches high. It looks like a dustbin to put your trash in - but based on what most people produce on computers today - there's a wonderful irony in that. It's certainly a dustbin I will want if it turns out to be any good. Thunderbolt exclusivity also doesn't surprise me. Very fast transfer speeds are being mooted. I would have thought they will come out with new OS for this machine too. So the wait will have to include findings that may take quite a bit of extra time.

Posted on Wed, Jun 12 2013 09:45
by Sergino Futurino
Joined on Thu, Dec 18 2003, Italy, Posts 652

I got rid of my 2008 Dual Xeon  MacPro and Logic one year ago and I am too happy with my Windows 7 PC.

Apple hardware and software (Logic)  is old history and we don't produce music with hardware design.

If what is inside it will be something that worths its cost, then we'll talk about it.

www.sergiobrunetti.it
Windows 10 on Vertex4 SSD - I7 3960x overclocked @4.0 Ghz - 32 GB RAM -
2010 MacbookPro 2.66 Ghz 8 Giga RAM -
MOTU: 2408 MK3, 24i, Traveler,MIDI Express XT
Studio One 4.1 Pro, Notion 6.5, Sibelius 6.2, Kontakt 5.6
VE Pro 6, VI Pro 2, Vienna Suite, Vienna MIR Pro w/Roompacks 1 and 2,
Libraries (preload size 2408): Special Edition Standard and Plus, Appassionata I, Solo Strings I, Dimension Brass, Percussion, Soprano Choir, Upright Bass, Flugelhorn, Saxophones, Concert guitar, Jazz Drums, Epic Orchestra, Dimension Strings
Posted on Wed, Jun 12 2013 16:02
by noldar12
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 582

Well, you asked...

The positives: overall power, and Apple's willingness to design something very different.

But...

Design: form over function?

Thunderbolt: slower than the newest PCIe specs.

No expansion: for its sleek industrial design, and small footprint, one has to add lots of external boxes/enclosures for multiple hard drives, PCIe cards, external thunderbolt devices, etc., etc., etc., resulting in a much larger overall total footprint than one has with a standard computer case.

Everything soldered in, cannot be upgraded, easily repaired or fixed.

The big unknown: cost.

Conclusion: probably great for the video crowd, with its dual graphics cards, where expansion isn't necessarily as critical, but not that great for intense audio production, particularly with large sample libraries (i.e. VSL, and others), where expansion matters.  Because it is Apple, it will be declared fantasmicalwondergreat.

Conclusion #2 (personal): not a MacPro, but a souped up, and probably very expensive, iMac.  It will go on my iGnore list.

Posted on Thu, Jun 13 2013 02:50
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649
noldar12 wrote:

Conclusion: probably great for the video crowd, with its dual graphics cards, where expansion isn't necessarily as critical, but not that great for intense audio production, particularly with large sample libraries (i.e. VSL, and others), where expansion matters.  Because it is Apple, it will be declared fantasmicalwondergreat.

No shure of this.

Did you read : 

  • up to 20 GB/s data transfer
  • PCIe flash storage at 1250 MB/s
  • 60 GB/s memory bandwidth
  • 12 cores 40GB/s

The actual Mac pro 12 core is already a very good configuration with ssd for MIR, this new Macpro is going to be a killing computer for a MIR configuration.

And if VSL uses the power of the graphic cards !!!! ;)

The only problem I see is having one Thunderbolt box containing our audio card and let see about the price 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Jun 13 2013 21:14
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 404

Hi,

I think one of the biggest negative factors will be their price. But Mac Pros were always expensive, and cost more than similar spec'd PCs. 

The new Mac Pro when nicely souped up with memory, and external TB2 peripherals, PCI expansion Chasis, ...etc. will cost a bundle !

The cost factor will be its biggest negative factor, I also don't get the small size factor of the design, most deskop users don't need to be mobile, so why make it so small, and have us connect most of the expansions/TB2 peripherals externally ? which are going to consume more space anyways.  

Having said so, I'm very happy that Apple decided to make a new Mac Pro !  There was a lot of buzz earlier in the year that they might be killing the entire Mac Pro line. So.. now we know that's not true. I think the new design is pretty innovative, although it could be mistaken for a trash bin Big Smile  I still like it. I just wish it was taller, and bigger to accomodate more expansions internally. 

I will evaluate the new Mac Pro when it begins shipping, and gets more realistic user reviews of how they behave under pressure ,  do they stay cool, and are they super-quiet in a studio environment ?  I also feel they are more geared for Graphics/Video professionals, given the dual-graphics processors.  

Cheers,

Muziksculp 

Posted on Fri, Jun 14 2013 03:54
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649
muziksculp wrote:

Hi,

I think one of the biggest negative factors will be their price. But Mac Pros were always expensive, and cost more than similar spec'd PCs. 

This is not true is you compare using the exact same processor !

I did a study a few years ago ; the high end Macpro was a few euro less than the Dell servers with the same processors ! 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 14 2013 06:28
by Sergino Futurino
Joined on Thu, Dec 18 2003, Italy, Posts 652

Cyril is right:

in 2008 a dual Processor Mac Pro was not so that much expensive compared to the others.

The easy reason was that they bought all the available XEON processors, not very fair....

www.sergiobrunetti.it
Windows 10 on Vertex4 SSD - I7 3960x overclocked @4.0 Ghz - 32 GB RAM -
2010 MacbookPro 2.66 Ghz 8 Giga RAM -
MOTU: 2408 MK3, 24i, Traveler,MIDI Express XT
Studio One 4.1 Pro, Notion 6.5, Sibelius 6.2, Kontakt 5.6
VE Pro 6, VI Pro 2, Vienna Suite, Vienna MIR Pro w/Roompacks 1 and 2,
Libraries (preload size 2408): Special Edition Standard and Plus, Appassionata I, Solo Strings I, Dimension Brass, Percussion, Soprano Choir, Upright Bass, Flugelhorn, Saxophones, Concert guitar, Jazz Drums, Epic Orchestra, Dimension Strings
Posted on Sat, Jun 15 2013 22:35
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9084

Cyril wrote:
... killing computer for a MIR configuration.

And if VSL uses the power of the graphic cards !

i asked this question years ago already und the answer was as simple as shattering:

the available grafic-memory is not large enough to have the impulses permanently loaded in (grafic card) RAM, which is required for fast calculation of the audio to output. using the GPU power just for calculations would result in a bottleneck on the bus (constant loading/unloading of impulse data) ...

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sun, Jun 16 2013 01:29
by dbudde
Joined on Sun, Mar 02 2003, Seattle,WA USA, Posts 448
cm wrote:

i asked this question years ago already und the answer was as simple as shattering:

the available grafic-memory is not large enough to have the impulses permanently loaded in (grafic card) RAM, which is required for fast calculation of the audio to output. using the GPU power just for calculations would result in a bottleneck on the bus (constant loading/unloading of impulse data) ...

That may have been true years ago when you asked that question.  

The VRAM in the new Mac Pro can be up to 6GB.  The largest venue for IRs in MIR Pro is 1.32GB.  So, please ask this question again.

Posted on Sun, Jun 16 2013 08:14
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9084

dbudde wrote:
The VRAM in the new Mac Pro can be up to 6GB.  The largest venue for IRs in MIR Pro is 1.32GB.

well, besides you would need at least some memory for the display(s) ;-) it is not as simple.

you also have to get the sample data (preload buffer) into RAM to have something to calculate on and not all GPU processing threads can access all memory, especially not simultaneously.

get an idea reading this article(s).

 

GPU processing is great for calculations which can be easily fragmented into little portions of jobs, it is not as efficient for multi impulse response reverbiation when the *whole room* is applied to every single instrument.

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sun, Jun 16 2013 16:41
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385
dbudde wrote:
[...]

The VRAM in the new Mac Pro can be up to 6GB.  The largest venue for IRs in MIR Pro is 1.32GB.  So, please ask this question again.

I'm not going to join the discussion, but just to avoid misunderstandings: The RAM used by MIR's Venues is not only dependant on the number and length of the original impulse responses (which is reflected by the raw size of a RoomPack), but mostly on the number of Icons used on a virtual stage. Each Icon triggers the pre-rendering of a unique set of impulse responses, depending on its position, rotation, stereo width, the chosen Instrument Profile, the global Reverb Time trim factor, and of course the selected Output Format (... multi-channel formats will need more RAM than stereo, for example).

This will happen again for each and every change applied to any Icon.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jun 16 2013 17:37
by dbudde
Joined on Sun, Mar 02 2003, Seattle,WA USA, Posts 448

Not really interested in debating this either.  I just think it prudent to revisit the question of moving certain functions to the GPU given what cm said the reason it hasn't been possible before.  But I think you guys already know that.  I'll trust that you do the right thing whatever that turns out to be.

Posted on Mon, Jun 17 2013 10:05
by thierry.ecuvillon
Joined on Wed, May 04 2005, france, Posts 205


De : thierry ecuvillon <>
Date : 10 juin 2013 23:23:24 HAEC
À : 
Objet : about new mac pro 

Hi, i have just seen the new mac pro from wwdc movies.
It is really great but i just want to tell you my feeling:
Technically, all is super but  i am a musician and it is certain, i will never go in concert tour or in recording studio with it.
For technician and musician, we need a 19"rack system, strong and easy to carry.
Like a industrial computor.
I hope you will understand this, i think a lot of technician will be happy with it.
Best regards,

Thierry Ecuvillon



______________________________________________
Thierry Ecuvillon : Composer (france)
Opus 1+2/ Solo Strings / Overdrive/Saxophone1 /Logic Pro X / Exs 24 / Altiverb/VE Pro 6
Posted on Wed, Jun 26 2013 07:50
by JRM
Joined on Wed, May 15 2013, Posts 19

I like it, dustbin , the concept of a unified fan that large will keep it cool and quiet. Lots of power under the hood and lots of ram, excellent, Xeon is the only way to go.

So how much? And i hate when Apple says, " starts at"..just give us a price fro the whole enchilada.

Thanks for posting

Cheers, JRM

Posted on Thu, Jun 27 2013 16:42
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2370

Everyone try to remember that these machines going back to early Mac Pros were not built for musicians. Their prime target is the graphics boys and girls. Musicians come way down the list.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2013 19:37
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 404
PaulR wrote:

Everyone try to remember that these machines going back to early Mac Pros were not built for musicians. Their prime target is the graphics boys and girls. Musicians come way down the list.

Yes, this is Very True !  

Apple was more into catering for the Pro- Graphics, video, Post Video,  ..than for Pro Audio-Production community.

Also look how much more attention FCPX gets compared to Logic Pro  ! 

Their history proves this.  

Posted on Fri, Oct 25 2013 16:54
by pianoguy
Joined on Thu, Feb 28 2008, Colorado Springs, Colorado, Posts 57

Apple has released the new specs. Their audio blurb (which predictably follows the blurbs on video editing, 3-d modeling and animation, and photography):

Quote:
More power across the board.

The new Mac Pro delivers up to 12 processing cores (up to 24 virtual cores) and up to 60GB/s memory bandwidth — twice the bandwidth of the previous-generation model. Now you can work with even more tracks of virtual instruments, plug-ins, and effects than previously possible. And the ultrafast PCIe-based flash storage loads all those instruments, samples, and loops almost instantly.

Connect to next-generation I/O technologies.

Six Thunderbolt 2 ports and four USB 3 ports redefine the meaning of expansion. Connect up to 36 best-in-class audio I/O devices from Avid, Apogee, M-Audio, MOTU, Universal Audio, and more. And with a PCI expansion chassis connected via Thunderbolt, you can work with the DSP and audio I/O PCI Express cards you already have.

--Mark Arnest

2013 Mac Pro, 3.5 GHz 6-Core / 64GB RAM / OS 10.14
/ DP 9.5 / Logic X / Sibelius Ultimate / Dorico / Cube plus many other VSL libraries & software package / NI Komplete 10 Ultimate / Samplemodeling/Audio Modeling Saxophones, Brass, and Viola / Orange Tree Acoustic Guitars, Mandolin, and Slide Guitars / Bolder Sounds Fiddle and Bluegrass Banjo / Chris Hein Violin / Psound Vintage Accordion / Soundiron Voices of Rapture / etc.
Posted on Fri, Oct 25 2013 17:40
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 509

The Mac Pro is well designed and a nice idea. That is all.

A powerful Haswell Win PC with 64 GB RAM, and 3 x (built in)1TB SSDs is cheaper and especially for a VSL user much more effektive. I think it will not be a big success in the Music-Pro area.

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