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VE Pro audio muting when switching tracks in Cubase Pro 8
Last post Wed, Jul 05 2017 by esencia, 112 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2015 14:36
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I think the question was directed towards Martin (as in MS), not Martijn.  

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2015 11:18
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post

Can you explain to us what the downside is of having a "preference" to turn asynchronous mode on.  I know you said latency would increase.  Can you elaborate on what the increase in latency would be and by how much?

The latency would have to be fixed, regardless if track was in playback or recording mode. I would expect a latency of 3072 samples, which is not very pleasant for recording. The best solution would of course be for Steinberg to implement a PDC reconfiguration scheme similar to the one used by Logic, which I have written about earlier.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2015 11:21
by 10us
Joined on Tue, Jan 01 2013, Posts 42
Originally Posted by: DG Go to Quoted Post
I think the question was directed towards Martin (as in MS), not Martijn.
DG


Oops.... 😄
|i7-6800K|Win10 pro x64|Cubase Pro 9.5.40|Vienna Ensemble Pro 6|RME Fireface UC|UAD2 Octo|
Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2015 11:33
by 10us
Joined on Tue, Jan 01 2013, Posts 42
Can somebody explain what asychronic mode does or point me to a link?

Martijn
|i7-6800K|Win10 pro x64|Cubase Pro 9.5.40|Vienna Ensemble Pro 6|RME Fireface UC|UAD2 Octo|
Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2015 21:16
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

Martin,

 

Agreed that latency would not work for obvious reasons.

Have you been in direct communication with Steinberg about this recently to try and convince them to look back into this matter?  On their forum they state that the fix on their end was implemented in 8.0.20 and the ball is in your court.

 

Rather then have us keep going back and forth it would be good to know if you currently are still discussing this with them.

 

Thanks,

Danny

 

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post

Can you explain to us what the downside is of having a "preference" to turn asynchronous mode on.  I know you said latency would increase.  Can you elaborate on what the increase in latency would be and by how much?

The latency would have to be fixed, regardless if track was in playback or recording mode. I would expect a latency of 3072 samples, which is not very pleasant for recording. The best solution would of course be for Steinberg to implement a PDC reconfiguration scheme similar to the one used by Logic, which I have written about earlier.

Posted on Tue, Sep 29 2015 08:00
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

This is a little worrying.

Clearly those kind of latency figures are not going to be workable, which leaves us back with the audio dropout issue, which for me personally is also unworkable.    Turning off AG2  for VE Pro is not really a fix - for bigger sessions I saw CPU overloads which I did not have with Cubase 7.x / Nuendo 6.x.

For now staying with older versions of Cubase and Nuendo is fine (this is where I've ended up), but can only really be an interim solution.   Unless VSL are now drawing a line and saying that VE Pro is no longer fully supported in current iterations of Cubendo, I can't help feeling that the onous to find a way forward lies on this side of the fence.  Certainly there's no public sign of Steinberg being willing to update it's PDC implementation for the sake of 1 plugin, much as we might wish they would.

It would be extremely sad if Steinberg DAW users no longer enjoyed full compatibility with VE Pro, because the combination is exceptionally powerful.   Reading between the lines though, it seems the issue is not going to be resolved any time soon, and judging by the fairly low numbers of contributors to this thread, I can only assume there are relatively few users affected.  That being the case, I don't see it getting a lot of attention in the near future.

It looks like Nuendo 6.5 isn't going to be uninstalled any time soon, but here's hoping.

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Tue, Sep 29 2015 08:43
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

Originally Posted by: Trailerman Go to Quoted Post

Clearly those kind of latency figures are not going to be workable, which leaves us back with the audio dropout issue, which for me personally is also unworkable.    Turning off AG2  for VE Pro is not really a fix - for bigger sessions I saw CPU overloads which I did not have with Cubase 7.x / Nuendo 6.x.

I hear you.

I am still in touch with Steinberg, trying to get them to update their PDC implementation to queue audio-engine reconfigurations until next stop/start cycle (just as Logic/ProTools does). Meanwhile, we are reverting the prefetch disabling for the upcoming VEP release, so if you want to have AG2 disabled, you will still have to do it manually.

 

Thanks,

Martin

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Tue, Sep 29 2015 09:17
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609
Thanks Martin

Good luck in your discussions with Steinberg. Hopefully they'll do the right thing.
System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Tue, Sep 29 2015 19:53
by alep
Joined on Fri, Sep 09 2011, Italy, Posts 6
Originally Posted by: Trailerman Go to Quoted Post
This is a little worrying.
Clearly those kind of latency figures are not going to be workable, which leaves us back with the audio dropout issue, which for me personally is also unworkable. Turning off AG2 for VE Pro is not really a fix - for bigger sessions I saw CPU overloads which I did not have with Cubase 7.x / Nuendo 6.x.
For now staying with older versions of Cubase and Nuendo is fine (this is where I've ended up), but can only really be an interim solution. Unless VSL are now drawing a line and saying that VE Pro is no longer fully supported in current iterations of Cubendo, I can't help feeling that the onous to find a way forward lies on this side of the fence. Certainly there's no public sign of Steinberg being willing to update it's PDC implementation for the sake of 1 plugin, much as we might wish they would.
It would be extremely sad if Steinberg DAW users no longer enjoyed full compatibility with VE Pro, because the combination is exceptionally powerful. Reading between the lines though, it seems the issue is not going to be resolved any time soon, and judging by the fairly low numbers of contributors to this thread, I can only assume there are relatively few users affected. That being the case, I don't see it getting a lot of attention in the near future.
It looks like Nuendo 6.5 isn't going to be uninstalled any time soon, but here's hoping.


I am writing and joining the ranks of the pro composers who are having big issues with VE Pro and Cubase 8. In short I must say I had the same problem wth AG2, which is also affecting the stability of smaller projects, even not involving VE Pro I must say. In any case, I don't understand where the fix must be done, if at VSL or Steinberg. I can only say that I had to switch back to Cubase 6, which was the version I was working on, to deliver what I have to do now. I am maybe sacrificing the possibility of a bigger template to the relative tranquillity of a reliable machine.

Regarding AG2, by the way, I don't have the feeling of it being well developed, at least judging frm my personal experience.

I will follow the developments here.

Regards,
Alessandro
Alessandro Ponti, composer
Posted on Sun, Oct 18 2015 08:33
by noiseboyuk
Joined on Tue, Nov 17 2009, Posts 83

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post
I am still in touch with Steinberg, trying to get them to update their PDC implementation to queue audio-engine reconfigurations until next stop/start cycle (just as Logic/ProTools does). Meanwhile, we are reverting the prefetch disabling for the upcoming VEP release, so if you want to have AG2 disabled, you will still have to do it manually

Thank you for keeping us updated, Martin.  Steinberg have now closed the case over at their forums, saying:

 

Quote:
This is taken more than seriously. But as Vienna is reluctant to 'to make the plugin operate completely asynchronously', reconfiguring the Cubase audio engine is no joke either.

The respective engineering departments are in touch to discuss what needs to be done on both sides.

 

As per the specific BON-7519 entry, this was related to updating the VST SDK3 to support prefetch information, which has been accomplished. Be sure there are other entries open.

 

(I can't find any other open issues on their forum on this issue, incidentally)

 

I have a couple of questions, Martin - could you explain a little more fully what is meant by "Meanwhile, we are reverting the prefetch disabling for the upcoming VEP release"?  Is this behaviour the same as with version 5.4.13741 where I'm able to run VE Pro with asioguard 2 set to low, but no higher?

Secondly, seeing how discussions are progressing.  I understand that both sides are in difficult positions, but given that it's been nearly a year now that pro composers have been fighting with workarounds, it would be good to hear some positive news.

Win 7 Pro 64 bit, i7 4930, RME Babyface, 64gb RAM, Cubase Pro 8, PT12 HD, VE Pro 5
Posted on Thu, Oct 29 2015 02:38
by C_Caouette
Joined on Thu, Mar 11 2004, Posts 172

I'll add my voice.  I really had hoped it would work but C8 hangs even one small projects when changing tracks.  I've never had that issue with LP and Martin's message earlier explains why.  I was really hoping to make a go of it and am still trying.  

Posted on Fri, Nov 06 2015 01:18
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 279

Is it better to use the VST2 plug-ins instead of the VST3 versions in Cubase 8? 

Posted on Fri, Nov 06 2015 08:25
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

It would be good to get an uypdate on this situation.  If memory serves, it's been almost a year since this issue was identified and I'm unclear on where things stand with regard to a resolution.

 

I can live with older versions of Nuendo and Cubase for now, but I have Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7 licenses which are currently redundant, and at some stage I can't help feeling that something is going to need to done.

 

Has any progress been made?  Are discussions still taking place?  Any news gratefully received.

 

Jules

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Fri, Nov 06 2015 09:33
by pacman
Joined on Mon, Jan 12 2015, Posts 24

It is certainly a long wait and Cubase 9 probably be about soon!

Posted on Fri, Nov 06 2015 17:23
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

Originally Posted by: synthetic Go to Quoted Post

Is it better to use the VST2 plug-ins instead of the VST3 versions in Cubase 8? 

 

 

Steinberg has already said that you must use the VST3 version with ASIO GUARD 2.  I can tell you from experience when I had a bunch of VST2 versions in my template before I knew this I was getting all kinds of CPU spiking issues.

Posted on Tue, Dec 01 2015 20:11
by 10us
Joined on Tue, Jan 01 2013, Posts 42
Deafening silence.... Anybody any hope on the soon to be expected update/upgrade of Cubase? :-)
|i7-6800K|Win10 pro x64|Cubase Pro 9.5.40|Vienna Ensemble Pro 6|RME Fireface UC|UAD2 Octo|
Posted on Wed, Dec 02 2015 21:31
by 10us
Joined on Tue, Jan 01 2013, Posts 42
Upgrade: Nope. Update end of this month? Or any word from VSL?
|i7-6800K|Win10 pro x64|Cubase Pro 9.5.40|Vienna Ensemble Pro 6|RME Fireface UC|UAD2 Octo|
Posted on Wed, Dec 02 2015 22:34
by paaltio
Joined on Sat, Jan 20 2007, Helsinki, Finland, Posts 20

Unfortunately no change in Cubase 8.5. The known issues document from Steinberg simply states:




7519: Switching between tracks using instruments from Vienna mutes the audio playback for a short moment

Please deactivate ASIO-Guard for these plug-ins using the Plug-in Manager. 




Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2016 09:17
by Evocatus
Joined on Mon, Aug 10 2015, United States, Posts 3

Maybe I don't understand the issue completely, but as far as I can tell this problem appears to be fixed in the latest update (5.4.14074) of VEP.  The changelog of the update includes this statement:  "Improved. Mixdown performance with Cubase Asio Guard 2".  

I activated Asio-Guard on Cubase at the Normal level, then switched the Asio-Guard switch on for the VEP plug-in (VST3 version). I I was able to switch between tracks with no muting delay.  Experienced no audio dropouts or other artifacts.  Not quite sure how to best measure CPU load, so I can't report on that.  At least it does seem that the VEP plug-in works now with Asio-guard 2.

Evocatus

Cubase 8.5.0 Pro 64, Tascam FW-1884, i7, 24Gb.

Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2016 09:48
by pacman
Joined on Mon, Jan 12 2015, Posts 24

Hey cheers for update inf; shall be trying later and if this works it will be great :)

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