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Posted on Mon, Nov 28 2016 10:14
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Greetings Folks,

I have a go-to collection of FX, and Dynamics plugins which I would like VE Pro 6 to host independently of Instrument plugins , and available to my DAW as send and insert processors.

Do I just add them as if they were instrument plugins in the server?

I have been through the user manual several times but haven't found this information specifically about signal processor hosting as independent plugins.

Please could someone advise me?

With Thanks,

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Mon, Nov 28 2016 11:24
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7024

Of course you can use VE Pro like a virtual FX rack. Just keep in mind that you need to work in a send/return-scheme. IOW: You can't use VE Pro as a single-slot-insert in a DAW track.

Caution: Depending on the DAW you're using, the "Audio In" plug-in which routes the audio from your host to your VE Pro slave might put quite some strain on your system and lead to occasional clicks and drop-outs.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Nov 28 2016 12:29
by ciprianis
Joined on Sun, Nov 13 2016, Posts 19

You have to rethink your routing: the VEP Audio Input will capture audio from your daw (channel strip or Aux bus) but will basically mute your channel (it will not return sound after it as a normal insert plugin would do). Instead, the sound returns via "Vienna Ensemble Pro" placed as (stereo or multi-output) instrument.

There are latency issues (I'm just discovering VEP6 myself), I managed to make it to work in Logic Pro X (see my thread on this forums section, the one starting with [maybe solved]), but not in Ableton Live.

Posted on Tue, Nov 29 2016 10:25
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Thank you for your replies. Very much appreciated.

An fx plugin should be inserted into an instance as one would an instrument.
Is this correct, please?

What further steps should I take to present that to my sequencer's mixer inserts and/or fx channel, please?

Pardon me for being confused. I am very new to VSL Ensemble Pro.

With grateful thanks,

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Tue, Nov 29 2016 11:04
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9866

Hi Mike, 

Your FX plug-ins will be inserted as FX plug-ins in VE PRO, the INPUT is reserved for the input from your sequencer (where you pick up the audio data from your sequencer). 

Did you manage to send audio to VE PRO yet? I´m not sure where you are stuck. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Nov 29 2016 15:48
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7024

Using VE Pro as virtual Send FX* rack (see attached screenshot):

1. Open VE Pro Server Application

2a. RED: In your Cubase Project, add VE Pro to your VST Instrument Rack, connect to it and activate as many outputs from VE Pro as you need.

2b. Add as many "Busses" (i.e. empty tracks) to this Instance of VE Pro as you need.

3. GREEN: Add as many Groups to your Cubase Project as you want to use as AUX-Send bus.

4. GREEN: Send into these Groups from your sources, like you would in case of internal FX tracks

5. YELLOW: Insert the Vienna Ensemble Audio Input plug-in to the Group Tracks.

6. BLUE: Select a dedicated Audio Input Channel for VE Pro in each of Cubase's Group TRacks

7. BLUE: Select these Inputs in the empty busses of VE Pro

8. Add the effect plugins you want to use to the respective channels.

9. VIOLET: Assign the proper Outputs to each of VE Pro's busses.

10. VIOLET: Don't forget to solo-defeat VE Pro's Output Channels in Cubase.


HINT: Proper naming of all individual channels involved (both in Cubase and VE Pro) will help a lot to keep track. :-)

* NOTE: Send Effects (Reverb, Echo etc.) opposed to typical Insert Effects (Compressor, Limiter etc.)

(Sidenote: The screenshot was created with Nuendo 6.0, but the workflow should be identical to Cubase)

HTH,

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/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 11:21
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Mike, 

Your FX plug-ins will be inserted as FX plug-ins in VE PRO, the INPUT is reserved for the input from your sequencer (where you pick up the audio data from your sequencer). 

Did you manage to send audio to VE PRO yet? I´m not sure where you are stuck. 

Best,
Paul

Paul, I wish to have the server host my VST Signal Processor Plugins. These are processors that are inserted into the insert bus of my sequencer's channel strip.

The server in this context will be a virtual fx rack, but as yet, I haven't worked out how to achieve it.

I know however, how to insert instruments into the server, and those are presented to my DAW sucessfully.

And so, an instance as an virtual processor rack is what I seek to implement.

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 11:25
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Using VE Pro as virtual Send FX* rack (see attached screenshot):

1. Open VE Pro Server Application

2a. RED: In your Cubase Project, add VE Pro to your VST Instrument Rack, connect to it and activate as many outputs from VE Pro as you need.

2b. Add as many "Busses" (i.e. empty tracks) to this Instance of VE Pro as you need.

3. GREEN: Add as many Groups to your Cubase Project as you want to use as AUX-Send bus.

4. GREEN: Send into these Groups from your sources, like you would in case of internal FX tracks

5. YELLOW: Insert the Vienna Ensemble Audio Input plug-in to the Group Tracks.

6. BLUE: Select a dedicated Audio Input Channel for VE Pro in each of Cubase's Group TRacks

7. BLUE: Select these Inputs in the empty busses of VE Pro

8. Add the effect plugins you want to use to the respective channels.

9. VIOLET: Assign the proper Outputs to each of VE Pro's busses.

10. VIOLET: Don't forget to solo-defeat VE Pro's Output Channels in Cubase.


HINT: Proper naming of all individual channels involved (both in Cubase and VE Pro) will help a lot to keep track. :-)

* NOTE: Send Effects (Reverb, Echo etc.) opposed to typical Insert Effects (Compressor, Limiter etc.)

(Sidenote: The screenshot was created with Nuendo 6.0, but the workflow should be identical to Cubase)

HTH,

Dietz, absolutely brilliant - thank you so much for going to all that trouble.

I will study your screenshot and take notes.

Thank you.

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 12:15
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Using VE Pro as virtual Send FX* rack (see attached screenshot):

1. Open VE Pro Server Application

2a. RED: In your Cubase Project, add VE Pro to your VST Instrument Rack, connect to it and activate as many outputs from VE Pro as you need.

2b. Add as many "Busses" (i.e. empty tracks) to this Instance of VE Pro as you need.

3. GREEN: Add as many Groups to your Cubase Project as you want to use as AUX-Send bus.

4. GREEN: Send into these Groups from your sources, like you would in case of internal FX tracks

5. YELLOW: Insert the Vienna Ensemble Audio Input plug-in to the Group Tracks.

6. BLUE: Select a dedicated Audio Input Channel for VE Pro in each of Cubase's Group TRacks

7. BLUE: Select these Inputs in the empty busses of VE Pro

8. Add the effect plugins you want to use to the respective channels.

9. VIOLET: Assign the proper Outputs to each of VE Pro's busses.

10. VIOLET: Don't forget to solo-defeat VE Pro's Output Channels in Cubase.


HINT: Proper naming of all individual channels involved (both in Cubase and VE Pro) will help a lot to keep track. :-)

* NOTE: Send Effects (Reverb, Echo etc.) opposed to typical Insert Effects (Compressor, Limiter etc.)

(Sidenote: The screenshot was created with Nuendo 6.0, but the workflow should be identical to Cubase)

HTH,

Hello again Dietz,

I have just realised that your suggested workflow is for FX plugins and not Signal Processors such as Dynamics and EQs etc., those which mostly (but not exclusively) are placed into an insert slot.

I am hoping that the procedure will not be too dissimilar to that which you described for FX plugins.

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 12:33
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7024

Personally, I wouldn't use VE Pro to outsource insert FX from your DAW. This is simply not the strength of this application, which was primarily created to host virtual instruments. The send-return routing scheme that is mandatory when using VE Pro with external signal sources is quite clunky in that respect.

To avoid any confusion: Of course it is straight-forward and pretty simple to use insert FX in VE Pro channels that are hosting signal sources themselves! Nothing will hinder you from adding a compressor or some tasty tape saturation to Vienna Instruments (or 3rd-party plug-ins) directly in VE Pro. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2016 09:19
by Mike Manners
Joined on Tue, Nov 08 2016, South Devon, Posts 11

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Personally, I wouldn't use VE Pro to outsource insert FX from your DAW. This is simply not the strength of this application, which was primarily created to host virtual instruments. The send-return routing scheme that is mandatory when using VE Pro with external signal sources is quite clunky in that respect.

To avoid any confusion: Of course it is straight-forward and pretty simple to use insert FX in VE Pro channels that are hosting signal sources themselves! Nothing will hinder you from adding a compressor or some tasty tape saturation to Vienna Instruments (or 3rd-party plug-ins) directly in VE Pro. :-)

Kind regards,

Very well, your advice makes sense and I will just host instruments.

Thank you for your invaluable assistance.

Grateful Thanks,

Mike.

VSL Ensemble Pro 6 - Same Machine as main DAW.

Cubase Professional 8.5

Intel X99 6-core. 64gb Ram
Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2016 18:04
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7024

You're welcome!

Like I wrote before: It makes perfect sense to use VE Pro as virtual FX rack for Aux Sends, too. You don't have to stick to instruments only. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Apr 02 2017 11:10
by jwitzsch
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2017, Posts 5

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post
.... It makes perfect sense to use VE Pro as virtual FX rack for Aux Sends, too...

I read this thread, because this is just the reason, why I look at VE Pro 6 right now: taking the load off my main computer and running the processor-intensive plugins (be it compressors, EQs, reverbs, other FX) on a host-machine.

- According to your experience: would that really help, or would all the routing, creating additional send/returns, AUXs, etc. create as much strain on my main computer (running PT12.6, bwt.), that the advantage of running the plugins externally on the host-computer via VEP is minimal

- looking at the suggested workflow (thanks for posting such an extensive explanation!), it is quite a big undertaking, thinking about hosting the plugins for  20 to 40+ track projects "externally". Does it make sense to you at all?

- how do you rate the following idea and the possible chances of it being realized/realizeable by the creators of VEP:  

why not develop some sort of "plugin" variation for VEP, that I can insert into any track on my DAW, that functions just like any other inserted plugin (meaning it is it's own "all in one audio send and return" in that very track, so to say): it routes that very channel/audio forth and back to/from the VEP server instance? 

In other words: I insert this "VEP FX plugin" into track number 1, create its "counterpart" instance in VEP, where I will insert any combination of plugins I want to use there (like dynamics, EQ, FX) and automatically, audio from track number 1 gets sent to its "counterpart" in VEP, processed and routed back via that "VEP FX plugin" instance into the very track again. Then I proceed with track number 2 etc. - So finally, by using this "VEP FX plugin", VEP really IS an easy to use FX-rack, too. (I hope, that I could make myself understandable)

Thanks for helping me with that matter and finding a decision, whether VEP can fit my needs

Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 11:40
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9866

Hi jwitzsch, 

I just wanted to point you to the free demo license for VE PRO 6, but realized that you have already purchased it! Congrats!

A more elegant solution for the external FX-Rack solution has been on our list fpr quite a while now, I hope we can get to it with one of the planned updates later this year. 

We're always happy to get some feedback, so let us know how this works for you!

Best,
Paul 

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 14:28
by jwitzsch
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2017, Posts 5

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
...you have already purchased it! Congrats!

... external FX-Rack solution has been on our list fpr quite a while now, I hope we can get to it with one of the planned updates later this year.

Paul - thanks so much for getting back with an answer (to both my posts)! Reading about your plans sounds very promising, looking forward to the update! Right now, I'm delving into VEP to get to know all its functions, kudos for this amazing piece of software!

Mind telling me, whether the (non proper procedure, I did not follow any rules!!!) FX-workaround, that I just discovered by thinking outside the box, might produce any problems:

I did not create any instrument/aux tracks and insert VEP6 like suggested in the manual. Instead, I just took my first audio track, and inserted your audio-plugin in the first slot and the VEP right below in the second slot, assigned send and return to channels 1&2 and could send & receive processed audio after inserting my plugin(s) in the VEP server instance.

I did so with a second track, assigning send and return to channels 3&4 completely independet of the first track.

So: no additional AUXs or instrument tracks in ProTools, 12.6 just plain and simple inserting VE in single tracks...

Suprised, that this works? Or problematic in terms of things I am not thinking of/considering, and/or processor load in my DAW?

P.S.: as for VST plugins, Vienna Ensemble 5 properly recognizes Waves' 9.6 and 9.7 two MAIN VST DLLs and their "compressed" individual plugin contents, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6 does not, anymore. I know, that VE does not officially support Waves VST, but it might be worth looking into, if ever possible. Waves is just too good to loose them in VEP 6...

Kind regards!

Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 14:34
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9866

Hi, 

Sounds like that works nicely, and I don't see any troubles. 

Did you check the the Waves plug-ins are not in the Waveshell and assigned in the correct VST Plug-in folders?

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 15:00
by jwitzsch
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2017, Posts 5

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

...Did you check the the Waves plug-ins are not in the Waveshell and assigned in the correct VST Plug-in folders?

They are in the Waveshell (sorry for not knowing the correct terms, that's what I meant by "compressed" - there are just two DLLs in the VST folder). VE 5 seems to get along with the Waveshell and gives me access ot all my Waves plugins, VEP 6 not anymore. VST plugin folder (64bit...) has the same path in VE 5 and VEP 6 settings.

Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 17:35
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9866

Hi, 

So did you try to extract those plug-ins from Waveshell? Should be worth a try. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 06 2017 13:54
by chrisr
Joined on Mon, Feb 18 2008, Posts 2

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi jwitzsch, 

I just wanted to point you to the free demo license for VE PRO 6, but realized that you have already purchased it! Congrats!

A more elegant solution for the external FX-Rack solution has been on our list fpr quite a while now, I hope we can get to it with one of the planned updates later this year. 

We're always happy to get some feedback, so let us know how this works for you!

Best,
Paul 

 

Hi Paul,

With all the exciting new work happening regarding synchron libraries, I just thought I'd voice a hope/request that something for extrenal FX-Rack is still being looked at.

I found this thread by googling, and I don't browse the forum much at all, so apologies if this conversation has been furthered elsewhere already!

very best,

Chris

Posted on Wed, Dec 06 2017 14:03
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9866

Hi Chris, 

Improving VE PRO as an external FX-Rack is still on our plate, but not with a high priority, I have to say. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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