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Basic questions about Synchron series
Last post Sun, Aug 27 2017 by fahl5, 22 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Apr 27 2017 18:11
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

The other thread about this is confusing so I wanted to ask:

Is Synchron compatible with MIR? Can you place these instruments in MIR? 

Also, is Synchron designed to basically replace the previous instruments ?  

 

I have to say that one of the best things about VSL is how even back to the First Edition the instruments are compatible and still very useable - even some of the best sounds actually.   I am starting to wonder if VSL is thinking like Sony did with Vegas Video - even though it is awesome software capable of 4K editing they sold it off. (To Magix which is actually doing very well with it.)  I hope that the "backwards compatibility" will continue with VSL because that to me is perhaps its single greatest asset.  You just keeping adding to your power as a composer with VSL. You don't have to throw everything out and start from scratch like other technology forces you to do. 

Posted on Thu, Apr 27 2017 18:27
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
You can read the answer on Page 2 of the confusing Thread ... Paul's answer is NO! And it is how it is.

But maybe it is the right Time to come to an endpoint for this collection. Exept of a completed Voices Collection most people here have everything they need to make Classic and Scores.




Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Thu, Apr 27 2017 19:12
by Andreas 1
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2006, Posts 36

I have a piece for flute, piano and percussion. I used for it flute 1, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Percussion and Mir. It sounds okay, but I'm not really satisfied with the percussion. How can I combine the new Synchron Percussion with the pinao and the flute. Or have I to wait for Synchron Imperial and Synchron Flute? 

Posted on Thu, Apr 27 2017 20:34
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Not the first Thread is "confusing" the change of an "era" itself rises sensible and very complex questions.

In short: a new era is a new era. Synchron-Series is obviously meant for use without MIR.

What make things difficult is the simple fact, that especially faithful longtime-users have already invested a lot in very good Vienna Samplelibraries. Up to now all new libraries have been compatible with earlier. To use already existing good VSL-Libraries the improvments of the Synchron-Series makes that difficult.

But....

there seem to be at least the intention to bridge the gap between Siltent-stage Libraies which need MIR and Synchronstage-Libraries not compatible with MIR: A Synchron-stage-Venue for Mir might allow to give silentstage-Libraries a similar acoustic. That would keep existing libraries still the option to be enriching additions of the new sets. 

However the Synchronstage Project is as ambitious as courageous from the VSL-Point of view it might bring new quallity based on the long expierence of the VSL- But it demands at the same time a lot from those used to work with the existing VSL-Libraries over years. Not only considerable investments in a large and completly new Samplesett, presmuable substantial changes if not the necessity of completly new Templates in VE and our Daws, and presumably more or less substantial upgrades of the hardware at least to run the whole Synchronstage-Libraries.

This in mind I personally would have expected perhaps a bit more consideration of longtime powerusers than 15% price reduction with introduction or bundleprices.

However if you want to drive german cars you have to pay them, it is not that much different with viennese Orchestrasamples. Till now they are simply the best and I still expect they will be in future.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Apr 27 2017 22:20
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

now I see...

Posted on Fri, Apr 28 2017 15:01
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
[...]

Or maybe the idea is to use a MIR sampling of synchron stage for the old instruments, and then the new system for the new instruments?  That would allow one to combine both old and new systems.

(An inofficial answer ...)

That's pretty much what we trying to figure out right now: How to build the bridge between two different, but perfectly valid approaches! :-) 

Please understand that Synchron Percussion is as new to us as it is for everybody else. We have all the building blocks, but we have yet to decide how to make the most out of them. More (and official) information will follow as soon as we made our minds up. 

Thanks for your patience!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Apr 28 2017 17:09
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

Dietz,

Thanks for the answer!  

It seems that having impulses for MIR for the Synchron stage would be the ideal since then all the setups for the vast number of detailed samples - including unusual instruments that are just about perfect like the Bass Flute, etc. -  would be compatible without Synchron being tied to the technology.  But you already know that of course - implementing it is not so easy I realize. 

Posted on Sat, Apr 29 2017 03:14
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

I guess what surprised me was any suggestion at all of something in VSL not being compatible with everything else - as has always been the case to an amazing degree with First Edition instruments recorded more than ten years ago still totally useable with the latest Dimension Strings, etc.  But I now understand that the idea is to have two different approaches, with the Synchron Stage a centerpiece for the technology, making a seamless connection between live recorded instruments and sampled ones.  Which is an awesome concept!  Also, going gonzo with the velocity and expressive detail which is what needs to be done.

Now, if only VSL will create the first word-building choir with authentic legato on every vowel.  Yeah!  

Posted on Sat, Apr 29 2017 08:53
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

In respect to the vast amount of work a completly new Orchestralibrary means for the VSL, I know that it is of course a bit impudent, still to ask for more.

But I must confess, that I tend to consent William, that an increase of options to get closer to the colors of sung text is definitly something the beautiful viennese Voices would rise instantly above all other vocal sample in the market.

While I can imagine that with the high musical standards of viennese samples a complete "Wordbuilder" might be very much work, it would be at least a large step forward, to get similar samplesets for the missing vowels ("Eh" "EE" "O") as we already have for "A" and "U".

However currently I am already thrilled enough about what we might get from the Synchronstage-series. As long VSL keeps on working, we have reason enough to wait what comes step for step.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sat, Apr 29 2017 09:19
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Fahl, did VSL ever give an info that "E" and "O" etc. were recorded for Choir and Solists?
I never got this info ... would be good to know.

Best

Lars

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Sat, Apr 29 2017 09:34
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

I can't currently link you any concret Post, by any VSL-guy but as far as I know the reactions about speechcolor improvements of the Viennese Voice-ssamples are at least ambivalent. While one can read sometimes "there will never be an wordbuilder functionality for the Viennese Voicesamples", there have been on the other hand sometimes indications, that it is not that unrealistic to get similar Samplesets for the missing vowls once upon a time. Of course it is still much work and obviously other things will have presumably a greater priority, 

At least it seems to me that one must not completly rule out the possibility to get more vowlsets for the voices sooner or later which at least seem to me not that unrealistic as a complete Wordbuilder. However I myself at least would appreciate this addition very much.

But it is kind of funny to discuss this matter while they just announced such an essential vast an overwhelming project like the complet new recording of an Orchestra on a completly new level. So let them do what they are able to. It always was worth waiting for.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sat, Apr 29 2017 17:40
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

Yes, it is of course a huge undertaking.  T

Posted on Sun, Apr 30 2017 02:38
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

The Syncron Stage is a huge investment and there is a basic purpose with it to combine live instrument recordings of any size ensemble (normally dictated by a film's budget) with samples.  So it makes sense to record new samples, different from the silent stage approach, that would naturally have the reverb within that stage, rather than have the reverb inserted artificially (though with a very good artificiality)  with MIR.  So the ideal approach for Synchron then becomes the impetus for a new sample library.  But rather than reproduce exactly the previous library, VSL has decided to go much further - somewhat like the Vienna Imperial is exponentially more complex and detailed than the Bosendorfer which is still a great piano sound - and produce a new, exponentially more detailed  set of samples.  Otherwise they would be repeating themselves.

I am just spouting off now, because my new computer is not yet fully operational and I have too much time on my hands,  but never mind that.    

I think that it will be essential for VSL to develop some totally transparent bridge between the old samples and the Synchron, because there is no way they will be able to reproduce all the previous instruments - especially the later masterpiece samples like Bass Flute, Flugelhorn, Cornet, 2nd Bassoon,  2nd clarinet,  etc.  (Not to mention many others.)   And since Dimension cannot be done practically, that is all the more reason to create a "backward" compatibility. ("Backward" being used very loosely when applied to Dimension Strings... which are truly a technological miracle.)  

Posted on Sun, Apr 30 2017 13:34
by mh-7635
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Posts 192

I hope VSL will implement Williams' suggestion of a 'transparent bridge'. I guess now there is no chance of a 2nd violin section in the old format, but perhaps in the new??????

Posted on Mon, May 01 2017 01:05
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

The "new format" will have for sure 2nd violins; now that "the hall matters", there's no option but recording the two violin sections separately, according to their position in the stage!

Posted on Mon, May 01 2017 09:56
by mh-7635
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Posts 192

Good point Fabio, it wont be before time though.....steady William :-)

Posted on Mon, May 01 2017 15:59
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

That would make sense, since the violin sections would be occupying a specific place on the stage as part of the recording process.

Posted on Thu, Aug 24 2017 00:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

O.K. that was a robot who vanished!  

Posted on Sat, Aug 26 2017 22:18
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1838

It seems like to me the solution isn't that difficult, create responses of the Synchron stage for MIR, tailored perhaps particularly for other instruments. Expense is another matter.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
Mac OS 11.6.1
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Sat, Aug 26 2017 22:19
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1838

that doesn't address the differences, the advances of the new technology but I can't imagine what would 'bridge' the two, interesting problem

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
Mac OS 11.6.1
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
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