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Synchronized Appassionata Strings
Last post Wed, Sep 12 2018 by Pixelpoet1985, 36 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 18:23
by Sami Boman
Joined on Wed, Mar 23 2005, Jyväskylä, Finland, Posts 167
Just to make sure. When I download Synchronized Appassionatas they will not overwrite my VI Appassionatas, right?
Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 18:33
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 398

I think that is not possible, because VI-files and SY- files are two different file-types.
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 21:14
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 120

I'm wondering if there will be a patch walkthrough video like they have done with Synchron Strings I. I like this idea where you can listen to the patches separately.

@VSL Is there a chance to have one? Would also be nice for the Chamber Strings.

Although I have the original samples and MIR Pro, I can understand that for new users who don't want to deal with reverb and all that stuff, these synchron-ized versions make sense. I think a walkthrough video might help in deciding to buy. Just an idea. :)

Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 11:39
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

I'm wondering if there will be a patch walkthrough video like they have done with Synchron Strings I. I like this idea where you can listen to the patches separately.

@VSL Is there a chance to have one? Would also be nice for the Chamber Strings.

Although I have the original samples and MIR Pro, I can understand that for new users who don't want to deal with reverb and all that stuff, these synchron-ized versions make sense. I think a walkthrough video might help in deciding to buy. Just an idea. :)

Actually, by the experience with Synchronized Chamber Strings (that I own just because I was owning Synchron and Chamber and they were just 75€, so I buy to check and to try to improve the Synchron strings I weakness points) I realize that:

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE:

- Synchronized libraries may work better than Synchron, because samples are processed BEFORE the ambience, and so the artifacts with release and reverb are almost non existent.

- the set up and the nice tree structue of Synchron player are very good added value.

- Mixing with Synchron strings it's obviously easier, and using almost the very same programming is possible and time saving.

ON THE NEGATIVE SIDE:

- the sound processing to get omogeneous dynamic and new articulations was in my and other people opinion, reducing a bit of the original samples natural feeling. Still instinctively I like the original VI version sound more.

- the single "virtual" MIC available and not matching the SYNCHRON mic set-up is a limitation in the custom patch building and in the overal sound shaping process that is a strong point of Synchron libraries. I hope VSL will improve it with more virtual MICs impulse responses, in case it's possible (in theory it is, because MIR do it...)

- you must store both the samples versions if you plan to use both VI and Synchronized versions, and it's wasting disk space a lot.

Finally I don't think that synchronized version is really requested if you own the original version and MIR Pro Synchron stage venue already, but they are a nice move for VSL to support the Syn String I weakness, and to enable the use of the nice features of patch-tree management of the Synchron player providing consistent positioning and programming for all the SS I, CS I and AS I libraries.

Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 11:48
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

- the single "virtual" MIC

what exactly do you mean with "virtual Mic"?

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 15:11
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

- the single "virtual" MIC

what exactly do you mean with "virtual Mic"?


There is no real recording of the library in the Synchron stage from different real mics like in the Synchron series, but just a MIR impulse response, simulating a virtual MIcrophone, in a stage position similar to the Synchron libraries.

Then the “mic” in the mixer is a virtual one, and not a real one, that’s the way synchronized libraries are mixed with synchron libraries in synchron player.
Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 15:36
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
- the single "virtual" MIC
what exactly do you mean with "virtual Mic"?
There is no real recording of the library in the Synchron stage from different real mics like in the Synchron series, but just a MIR impulse response, simulating a virtual MIcrophone, in a stage position similar to the Synchron libraries. Then the “mic” in the mixer is a virtual one, and not a real one, that’s the way synchronized libraries are mixed with synchron libraries in synchron player.

Sorry to talk about Microphone Positions makes sens, when you want to describe the  acoustic difference of recordings made freom different positions. To talk about "Virtual" Mirccrophone would make in my humble opinion therefor only sens if you simulate the effect of differen acoustic perspectivs with different simiulated acoustics. As long there is only one recording at all, however processed than this is all we have there is nothing mixable as you would expect when you talk about Microphone positions. The Synchronized Patches might include the Synchron Ambniance simulated in MIR dfor the position where they would be expected, but Mir does not simulate different Microphone-Posaitions but only the position of a certain source in the room. This makes in my humble opinion of course a virtual Position and its certain ambiance. But this has scarcly anything to do with any difference of any Microphonepositions. Thats why I still think this term is not very appropriate applied to the synchrtonized Libraries. Please correct me I am wrong in anmy of my assumptions. But currently I would not use it like you do.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 15:55
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 81

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
- the single "virtual" MIC
what exactly do you mean with "virtual Mic"?
There is no real recording of the library in the Synchron stage from different real mics like in the Synchron series, but just a MIR impulse response, simulating a virtual MIcrophone, in a stage position similar to the Synchron libraries. Then the “mic” in the mixer is a virtual one, and not a real one, that’s the way synchronized libraries are mixed with synchron libraries in synchron player.

Sorry to talk about Microphone Positions makes sens, when you want to describe the  acoustic difference of recordings made freom different positions. To talk about "Virtual" Mirccrophone would make in my humble opinion therefor only sens if you simulate the effect of differen acoustic perspectivs with different simiulated acoustics. As long there is only one recording at all, however processed than this is all we have there is nothing mixable as you would expect when you talk about Microphone positions. The Synchronized Patches might include the Synchron Ambniance simulated in MIR dfor the position where they would be expected, but Mir does not simulate different Microphone-Posaitions but only the position of a certain source in the room. This makes in my humble opinion of course a virtual Position and its certain ambiance. But this has scarcly anything to do with any difference of any Microphonepositions. Thats why I still think this term is not very appropriate applied to the synchrtonized Libraries. Please correct me I am wrong in anmy of my assumptions. But currently I would not use it like you do.



Did you ever notice you can move the mics as well in MIR, not only the instruments ? :)

It's pretty clear (no offense) you don't have the background to understand how MIR works. You should start reading something about Ambisonics. 
From the "Think MIR" PDF that you may have already read:
"Ambisonics relies on a meta-audio-format which is not meant to be listened to directly. It allows for decoding of an almost limitless number of actual audio formats, be it broad or narrow stereo, different surround formats, or any other multi-channel format. By defining "virtual" microphones, a dedicated sonic behaviour can be assigned to each channel: The polar patterns as well as the angles of those microphones with regard to the input signal can be controlled after the actual recording.





To achieve this, an Ambisonics signal has to be based on four channels (W, X, Y, Z)4. The W channel is the signal’s non-directional mono component, corresponding to the output of an omni-directional microphone. The X, Y and Z channels are the directional components in three dimensions. If you have an audio-engineering background, you might think of it as "three-dimensional M/S", or even better a “three-dimensional Blumlein” microphone array.





Ambisonics is a 360-degree, full-sphere sound recording, synthesis, and playback system. It is capable of accurately recording, processing, and playing back sounds from left/right, front/back, and up/down. Incorporating the vertical dimension makes Ambisonics a true periphonic, or surrounding, sound reproduction system instead of an artificial 2D representation spread out over multiple loudspeakers. Ambisonics creates the aural or sonic impression of a physical, three-dimensional space.5





To use the power of this format to its fullest extent, MIR Pro not only uses impulse responses recorded by means of dedicated four-capsule microphones: Any audio signal within MIR Pro is handled in Ambisonics! Every instrument’s signal is ENcoded to format B to guarantee the perfect match between an IR’s original position on a stage and the instrument assigned to it. Of course, the same is true for any audio input, too.





To top it all, when using Vienna MIR Pro we are not limited to those spots that were used for impulse recording in the first place. Ambisonics allows for the seamless interpolation of each and every point within the covered area of a stage. Only the so-called off-stage “HotSpots” are limited to a single position."











 





Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 16:06
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Wow the discussion becomes realy passionate. Are you sure that this is realy an aspect which deserves that much quotation?

Of course the AMbiance calcutated in MIR is simulated no one disputes that  And yes in MIR you would be able to simulate different Microphonepositions. And if they really would have done that and sold not only the Main output but Recordiungs friom different simulated Microphonepositions. Than it might make sens for the user to discuss the quality of those "simulated  Microphonepositions"

But this is simply not the case.

We have one Main output with a simulated position of each certain Section and thats it. And if you like it call this Main Output "virtual Mic" how ever you want to.

For the Usage of the synchrponized Libraries I still cant see that much benefit neither for the usage oif such a term nor for such an extended Discussion of my simple Question what Fatis exactly has meant.

(And I fear, this might be alsothe reason, why it seems to be that VSL themself does not use such a terminology to describe their "synchronized" Products.)

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Wed, Sep 05 2018 22:37
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
- the single "virtual" MIC
what exactly do you mean with "virtual Mic"?
There is no real recording of the library in the Synchron stage from different real mics like in the Synchron series, but just a MIR impulse response, simulating a virtual MIcrophone, in a stage position similar to the Synchron libraries. Then the “mic” in the mixer is a virtual one, and not a real one, that’s the way synchronized libraries are mixed with synchron libraries in synchron player.

Sorry to talk about Microphone Positions makes sens, when you want to describe the acoustic difference of recordings made freom different positions. To talk about "Virtual" Mirccrophone would make in my humble opinion therefor only sens if you simulate the effect of differen acoustic perspectivs with different simiulated acoustics. As long there is only one recording at all, however processed than this is all we have there is nothing mixable as you would expect when you talk about Microphone positions. The Synchronized Patches might include the Synchron Ambniance simulated in MIR dfor the position where they would be expected, but Mir does not simulate different Microphone-Posaitions but only the position of a certain source in the room. This makes in my humble opinion of course a virtual Position and its certain ambiance. But this has scarcly anything to do with any difference of any Microphonepositions. Thats why I still think this term is not very appropriate applied to the synchrtonized Libraries. Please correct me I am wrong in anmy of my assumptions. But currently I would not use it like you do.


Well, you wrote “ if you simulate the effect of different acoustic perspective” and actually it’s exactly what MIR Pro is designed for, simulating different acoustic perspectives of virtual instruments with virtual microphones.

The fact you don’t understand the language and the concept, is probably due to what Fabio also noticed, that you are not very familiar with the tool and the science behind it. But you may study it and read the manual and play with the virtual microphone customization tools, and with different positions to better understand, before you express so strong opinions about it as an expert...

Anyway as you say, the VI Library is recorded with a real microphone in the silent stage. How do you describe the microphone available in the Synchron player simulating the unreal recording in the synchron stage, with the unreal position of the microphone similar to the real one of synchron strings? Is it a real microphone or a virtual one? The only reason for still arguing about a so obvious and simple concept is emotional, or linguistic issue. You don’t have any technical or academic support to your objections.

Still I don’t understand why you ask us to show you in what you were wrong, and using VSL as a reference, and when we finally show you using VSL manual quotes that we are right, you complain about “passionate so much quotations” LOL
Posted on Thu, Sep 06 2018 00:49
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5164

You're right on that.  The question is - what is the difference between this new version of previous libraries in Synchron and simply using MIR with Synchron stage?  

I suppose it is to be able to incorporate the player.  

This does not add anything, it is just a different interface and various kinds of tweaking, not actually anything new.

Posted on Thu, Sep 06 2018 08:50
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post


Still I don’t understand why you ask us to show you in what you were wrong, and using VSL as a reference, and when we finally show you using VSL manual quotes that we are right, you complain about “passionate so much quotations” LOL

Just show me any occurrence of this term in any synchronized Library manual,. that might support your usage of this term to describe the synchronized Libraries. That and nothing else is what is discussed here.

To be short: there is even none of the word "virtual" at all in any synchronizued Library-Manual.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Thu, Sep 06 2018 17:39
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post


Still I don’t understand why you ask us to show you in what you were wrong, and using VSL as a reference, and when we finally show you using VSL manual quotes that we are right, you complain about “passionate so much quotations” LOL

Just show me any occurrence of this term in any synchronized Library manual,. that might support your usage of this term to describe the synchronized Libraries. That and nothing else is what is discussed here.

To be short: there is even none of the word "virtual" at all in any synchronizued Library-Manual.

Well this is just because you (again) didn't follow the development details of Synchronized Libraries, actually made thanks to MIR technology, as stated in several presentations, and recently confirmed by Dietz in the thread.

What is more curious, is that the whole discussion started with my comment that a single virtual microphone is not very useful to mix with the multi-mic mixer of Synchron, and you also noticed that as a limitation weeks ago when we were discussing about the synchronized Chamber Strings  ability and inability to be used bulding custom patches with Synchron Strings I (due to mics mismatch, impossible to do properly in a single instance of Synchron Player) then finally you agree on my comment... just you don't like for some strange reason the word "virtual". But sorry this is the only and correct word used in the digital industry to describe the features of the reality simulation via digital processing. This is also the reason for VSL also using "virtual" as the word describing the MIR microphones. That's all.

Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 00:12
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Fatis, what excactly is your problem. I asked you polite and unmistakeable clear what you have meant with using a term no one else used before for synchronized Libraries, and instead straight forward ansawering you are trying to prove exactly what in several threads all over this forum?. To finally find out, that what you are trying to convince me is what I already posted weeks ago? What means all your discussion was perhaps just completly sensless based on what ever assumption what I in your opinionthink or do not think. Why didnt you just answered my question?

I do understand Paul to get tired from that kind of behavior.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 06:33
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Fatis, what excactly is your problem. I asked you polite and unmistakeable clear what you have meant with using a term no one else used before for synchronized Libraries, and instead straight forward ansawering you are trying to prove exactly what in several threads all over this forum?. To finally find out, that what you are trying to convince me is what I already posted weeks ago? What means all your discussion was perhaps just completly sensless based on what ever assumption what I in your opinionthink or do not think. Why didnt you just answered my question?

I do understand Paul to get tired from that kind of behavior.

 

You do know that Paul is tired of YOU, right? Of course you do, it's just yet another way you twist things and play victim.

You are so busy telling everybody how POLITE you are, while at the same time, you write one tiresome reply after another, arrogantly telling everybody how wrong they are, always ignoring anything they actually bring to the table - then you change the subject and tell people that they should be nice and POLITE like you and discuss the subject matter. ANYTHING that doesn't go exactly like your head you dismiss and ignore to make everything be about what YOU think it should be about. And then you lie about your intentions, playing the victim, saying how misunderstood you are and how wrong we all are. True psychopathic character behaviour, really.

And actually it seems most of the time YOU don't even know what you really want out of all your questions and writing. You certainly don't want other - more knowledgable people than yourself - to write valauble replies to your questions. Like when Dietz answered regarding MIR and mics, you also arrogantly just evaded/dismissed his answers, until you found out that he actually is much brigther than you, one of the brains behind VSL, and actually creates something of importance to many people in the world.

You should really get your head out of your ass. And now we are at it, try to stick to pre-school English, because your lack of skills in that department also often adds to the confusion and paints a picture of someone who thinks all his fancy degrees are the only thing he clinges to when trying to write in academic terms that just don't work when you don't master simple English grammar and syntax to begin with.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 07:10
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 311

When is VSL finally going to ban this jackass anyway? The forum has become completely unbearable because of one single obnoxious person. Nobody can open a thread or comment on anything at all without being harassed, either in the thread of via PM. It's a ridiculous situation, and I'm sure that people have started actively avoiding the forum already.

Sorry for being so blunt, VSL. But that's how it is. Get rid of this guy already.

Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 07:32
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

So that is how it will go on, after William would have added, that he pretends (without any concrete prof) I would have alledgly "insulted" Guy and Acclarion ads his +1, every body thinks it was me who has posted all those persopnal aggressions, far away from any relation to the real subject of this thread and Paul and Dietz will ask me to stop what ever no one can exactly quote in any of my postings, while ignoring tons of rage attacks as those we constantly see in postings of a handful of Users here, who where tolerated by the admins without any correcting comment. at all. And finally Paul will close this thread and all who have been aggressive here again as they have been before so often will feel that they are on the "right site" and will go on to be agressive as they have been before.  Since this seems to be the atmosphere the Admins do want to support.

However the reality is: we are what we are how ever aggressive anyone is I have to live with his short comings as he has to live with me as I am. 

While the things could be so easy: I already asked the Admins more than once: If ever I would have posted one inapropriate word, just tell me the concrrete posting and I will correct it  to a more suitable formulation. 

But: No one, no Admin no one who feels in the position to loose all his constraint for being aggressive against me was able  to name me any concrete inappropriate word justifying anything.

While, if I would start naming every siingle example of direct personal aggression against my person, it would be a tremendously long list of coincrete examples of completly nappropriate personal aggresions.

So in short I am not responsible for anyone who looses his controle andwho cant hold back his rage attacks.

It is always the responsability of the one who is aggressive. No one else.

So if you really want to continue like that ask your self is that realy the one you want to be?

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 07:35
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 398

 

Normally I would not write here in those difficult cases. But did someone notice that Dietz wrote ...

Dietz: It's hard to keep track of "what" and "where" when every second thread seems to derail in "I'm right and you're not"

That remembers me in a related posting from user BBelius who wrote ...

BBelius: I don't care if someone has a fight with somone else, unless I have to read all the useless conversations to get the information between those posts I'm looking for.

I think it is wrong to ..

a) ... to continue with "I'm right and you are wrong"- games; especially when already a similar MIR-thread has been closed (BTW ... what I always enjoy is that MIR feels so natural that technical topics are pretty unrelevant). 
b) ... to reprimand someone for his English language skills. It is not the first time that this happens. We are all encouraged to speak English here - no matter where we come from. And I remember that one guy from China did not dare to write here for years because he thougt his Englisch was too bad.

All of this is completely unnecessary.

—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 07:45
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post

b) ... to reprimand someone for his English language skills. It is not the first time that this happens. We are all encouraged to speak English here - no matter where we come from. And I remember that one guy from China did not dare to write here for years because he thougt his Englisch was too bad.

All of this is completely unnecessary.

You are right, and I won't and have never criticized anyone for his/her English skills before. I am also a novice and that department as English is not my first language and I haven't actually lived in UK/US or anything like that where I would be able to vastly improve my skills there. The difference is that fahl tries so hard writing academic and complicated stuff and that does not work well when you don't master basic English skills. And had he been humble and frank about this (or anything) I would never had taken that road. The language barrier is just an extra contributing factor to the confusion and frustration present in everything fahl touches here.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 07:59
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

The difference is that fahl tries so hard writing academic and complicated stuff and that does not work well when you don't master basic English skills. And had he been humble and frank about this (or anything) I would never had taken that road. The language barrier is just an extra contributing factor to the confusion and frustration present in everything fahl touches here.

again you dont just take responsability for your own behavior, which you self know is wrong, pretending whatever I alledgedly "try hard" would justify that you do something what  youself know is inappropriate to do.

Be honest and take responsability for yourself. And dont think debasing me would be justification enough for you to act inappropriate.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
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