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Last post Mon, Oct 22 2018 by michi, 78 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 08:09
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post
Count me in Still waiting for that Boys choir for starters.
... plus the solo boys for the PROs ;) ... !

more important is the full palette of vowels for the existing singers, while I of course will wellcome all sampled "Wiener Sängerknaben" but please not again only with "Ah" and "Uh".

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 08:24
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post
Count me in Still waiting for that Boys choir for starters.
... plus the solo boys for the PROs ;) ... !

more important is the full palette of vowels for the existing singers, while I of course will wellcome all sampled "Wiener S&auml;ngerknaben" but please not again only with "Ah" and "Uh".


I agree that Ahs and Uhs are not enough in these days when you look to the latest competitors products.
BTW, the Genesis Children‘s choir from audiobro seems to be interesting. But I did not have the time for an intense listening yet.


Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 09:45
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
I agree that Ahs and Uhs are not enough in these days when you look to the latest competitors products. BTW, the Genesis Children‘s choir from audiobro seems to be interesting. But I did not have the time for an intense listening yet.

Yes I also noticed that they seem to be more serious than the average of Choir-sampleproducers, but currently it is still not more than the boys available yet. Might become interesting if they ever provide also a normal Choir and soloists in that quality (since Singing is such a matter of personal character you realy cant have enough different solosinger-Libraries). Currently I dont have enough occasion for a Boy choir, but will keep an eye on it. (unless our VSL Choir and soloists will finally provide the missing vowels )

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 10:13
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

Count me in

Still waiting for that Boys choir  for starters.

I and others have been asking for a Boys choir going on ten years now and still no joy.  I don't know.  I'm thinking maybe Austria has some strict child labor laws that are throwing up obstacles to this project.  Then again, the Vienna Boys Choir is undoubtedly the most famous boys choir in the world so they're probably pretty busy.

Although, I should be careful what I ask for because if VSL releases the Boys Choir next month or something I'm going to be obligated to whip out the credit card and pay up since I've been bitching for this for so long.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 11:27
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

Although, I should be careful what I ask for because if VSL releases the Boys Choir next month or something I'm going to be obligated to whip out the credit card and pay up since I've been bitching for this for so long.

I fear, your credit card should be ready in any way from the moment on you discovered VSL, ....

....they are stil busy

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Wed, Sep 19 2018 22:10
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325
I don't think that asking for more traditional libraries is the same as putting down Synchron. That's not the case at all. And I don't care much whether I'm looking at the Synchron player or VI, both have great advantages and seem useful and well designed. Focusing on who's being "insulted" is a change of subject. There are people who don't want to get into VSL because they don't like dry libraries, and VSL is giving them some truly incredible options between MIR and Synchron. There are also people who don't like wet libraries, and they too have been treated well by VSL. That is their core base of customers and shouldn't be totally abandoned.

I think I'm being fair here, the Smart Orchestra sounds wonderful. The piano, despite being a Yamaha which isn't my preference, sounds fantastic. And the percussion is beautiful! Also having said all that, I still haven't heard demos showing great versatility in the strings as far as realistic flowing lines and expression. Synchron hasn't provided that new leap.

For people like me who prefer dry and aren't crazy about the sound of the strings, it would be sad to see the greatest creator of libraries that perfectly fit my workflow abandon it.
Posted on Thu, Sep 20 2018 11:12
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Casiquire Go to Quoted Post

For people like me who prefer dry and aren't crazy about the sound of the strings, it would be sad to see the greatest creator of libraries that perfectly fit my workflow abandon it.

That the Synchron-Series realises a completly new acoustic concept, will allow to keep the (most) previous VI products still available. That's why I dont see any reasons to fear that they abandon it if that should mean stop selling and supporting those products.

But the Synchron Series as it started is obviously a huge Project with a lot of stuff already still in the pipeline to complete the whole. Since those are much more basic and necessary Things to complete the Synchron orchestra than some additional historic instruments or additional dimensionstring patches, I just expect that it is much more realistic and reasonable, that the Synchron-Series Project will have a priority in the next time over any further silentstage library to be developed and recorded.

Nevertheless, if ever they still have any unpublished Silentstage recordings trhan more VI-Products are much more realistic to be published sooner or later.

Btw: The synchron-series is in my humble by far not just a "wet" library. It is nearly completly up to the user how wet or how dry he makes his mix. As already diescussed inanother thread it is no problem to handle them as dry only instruments for your own way to create the ambiance you are looking for.

The only difference is that you also can ad the original real ambiance of a realy nice Orchestral Recording studio in a very detailed way and are not completly dependend from additional synthetic reverbration, which you nevertheless can ad as every studio recording engineer is always free to ad to his studiorecordings.

In short I still believe the Synchron player aswell as the synchron series is a huge step ahaed and is just starting to be released. I personally can't see any advantages of the VI-Player over the Synchron player and would even wellcome to finally have the whole VSL-World in the Synchron, or at least as much as possible. And I also believe that the Synchron-Series as a whole will raise the quality of orchestral-samples in so many aspects that it is worth to wait for the whole thing.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Fri, Sep 21 2018 12:06
by woy
Joined on Sun, Oct 31 2004, Monaco, Posts 43

+1

Posted on Fri, Sep 21 2018 17:51
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5684

The specific additional VI I feel need to be sampled and programmed consistently with the previous VI series are:

Dimension Stings III with ponticello sustain and tremolo, glissandi, spiccato, sampled trills like the Orchestral strings extending beyond half and whole tone intervals (performance trills are no substitute for sampled trills most of the time) and ideally a series of unusual string effects. Having FX on Dimension strings would be mind-blowing. 

Historic winds - SACKBUTTS!  Absolutely essential for so many historic era performances. 

Historic Percussion - the only option now is to use modern percussion instruments - like modern mechanical timpani etc. - a very lame compromise for totally different sounding authentic historical drums and cymbals.

Historic Strings such as Viola de gamba, rebec, theorbo etc. etc. - tons of possibilities there.

It would be completely wrong to do these important additions with a system that did not fit into the previous vast body of samples, so it is essential to produce these first as additional VI.    

Posted on Fri, Sep 21 2018 22:56
by kenneth.newby
Joined on Wed, Mar 19 2014, Posts 126

YES!!! In a heartbeat. And a Dimension Strings IV with all this played sordino.

"Dimension Stings III with ponticello sustain and tremolo, glissandi, spiccato, sampled trills like the Orchestral strings extending beyond half and whole tone intervals (performance trills are no substitute for sampled trills most of the time) and ideally a series of unusual string effects. Having FX on Dimension strings would be mind-blowing."

Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 10:07
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: Casiquire Go to Quoted Post

There are people who don't want to get into VSL because they don't like dry libraries,

And, you know, that's a crying shame because IMHO the "wetness" of the library doesn't matter all that much..  It's the flexibility that dry samples provide not to mention the user friendly player which was carefully designed with intuitiveness in mind.  Well, if these people don't want to "get into VSL" that just means more VSL for me but I'm sure VSL would appreciate the extra business. 

I simply do not understand this obsession some people have with wet libraries.  They've erroneously convinced themselves that samples smothered in reverb are more realistic and sonically superior.  I don't buy that for a minute.

So VSL, I prevail upon you, do not retire the Silent Stage.  Thank you. 


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 11:06
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

In my humble opinion the alternative dry = silentstage and wet = synchron simplifys reduce the different character of both projects in a more or less false way:

The silentstage is no at all "dry": it is a studio ambiance which gives room enough to add additional tools for an artificial ambiance.

The Synchron Series is not at all simply "wet" or only meant for those who always expect the whole ambiance being part of the recorded samples: The Synchron-Studio is also a Studio (with obviously long tradition as Filmscoring studio). Yes you do have in Synchron series a very detailed acces to controle the anount of the real studio ambiance which should part of the recordiung you are programming. But it is also in this meaning still a studio, that nothing prevents you from adding aditional tools for shaping the ambiance you are looking for. Moreover already the Synchron-Player and many of its presets ad an artificial algorithmic reverb, while as long you run them in VEpro you can of course place everything you get out of a synchronplayer in your MIR or any other aditional ambiance tool.

In short: Synchron is not "less" possibility it is just "more" and that means in many aspects (not only the ambiance) much more details available and the more the whole series will be released I am sure exactly this aspect will become more and more obvious.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 18:03
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5684

No, that is total misinformation - the silent Stage is definitely dry.

It was designed to be absolutely as silent and non-reverberant as possible in order to allow total freedom of additional reverbs of any kind. This is its great value. It adds almost no color or ambience to the recordings.  The fact that it can be scientifically analyzed in a lab as having "reverb" that is barely detectable by the human ear doesn't translate into what one hears in a simple musical sense, which is a totally dry sound.  The proof of this is that no one ever uses the Silent Stage samples in an actual performance without adding some kind of reverb - they would sound far too dry.  But this allows any kind of reverb from hardware to MIR to Moog analog delay to be used.   

Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 19:15
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 327

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

... acces to controle the anount of the real studio ambiance which should part of the recordiung ... aditional ambiance tool.

UH??... "Penitentiagite!.." 

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

In short: Synchron is not "less" possibility it is just "more" and that means in many aspects (not only the ambiance) much more details available and the more the whole series will be released I am sure exactly this aspect will become more and more obvious.

In short: that's your opinion. We have a different one. (Personally I totally agree with William for instance).

Anyway we should stop this neverending polemic and just listen to fair and well explained whishes of others. Don't be afraid... you will get your Synchron things, and there is no reward in a VI vs. Synchron battle. 

Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 20:36
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5684

Yes, I have no desire to downgrade Synchron, I am just making a positive statement about the great VI series. 

Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2018 23:29
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Maybe that helps ...

Dietz wrote ...

... Contrary to common belief and urban legends, VSL never recorded "close" or in an anechoic environment, just "without reverb". ;-)

or

... Silent Stage is anything else than "superdry". Lots of early reflections are happening there - just no "reverb" in the actual sense of the word. :-)

(You can find a lot of infos about that topic from Dietz in the Community-Search)


Finaly LAJ writes: Not all kind of Silent Stage samples are without reverbtail. Short percussive sounds have a short reverbtail that you can clearly hear. (Or maybe I should call it room-tail, cause what you hear is the room)
But who cares ... Gate Effects can solve such a „problem“ if it bothers somebody.

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Sun, Sep 23 2018 00:37
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Yes LAJ thats the only thing I was talking about. However William is of course still right, in stating, that there is at least so little tail, that you can reasonably ad your own ambiance with whatever tool you like. 

I just tried to indicate, that you are imho in the synchron series still able to use the the Mix in a way wich reduces the tail nearly as much, to work in the same way if you want to, But this is no real dissens also when it comes to the VI-Libraries which I likewise do apreciate very much and consent William in that point.

I just expect, that the Synchron Series will have in the near future a priority to be completed as full orchestra. And I would expect that this is in any way a step ahead whioch will cover nearly everthing we used to get from the cube  in a much higher developed state of the art. (i am not talking about the dimension series which is of course a different concept and will stay attractive as such)

So I dont think that we differ that much. neither is here any "polemic" or need of any reminder against polemic. I can only see great apreciation and interest in the Work of VSL aswell that was already done as in what they are currently doing.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Sep 23 2018 01:54
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5684

 "I can only see great apreciation and interest in the Work of VSL" - fahl5

Yes, that is it, very well put!  VSL is simply an awesome company.  It made possible music I could never have realized otherwise.  The people at VSL are truly brilliant innovators. 

Posted on Sun, Sep 23 2018 10:20
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

The silentstage is no at all "dry": it is a studio ambiance which gives room enough to add additional tools for an artificial ambiance.

I don't much care what it is; dry, wet, damp, moisturized, parched or what not.  I'm just enamered by the silent stage and the near sonic purity it creates.

Don't get me wrong, I think Synchron is perhaps the most innovative project of any sample library within the last ten years probably since Dimension  Whatever problems it has currently I think are just growing pains and the series will be perfected as time goes on. 


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Sep 23 2018 10:26
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

It was designed to be absolutely as silent and non-reverberant as possible in order to allow total freedom of additional reverbs of any kind. This is its great value. It adds almost no color or ambience to the recordings.  The fact that it can be scientifically analyzed in a lab as having "reverb" that is barely detectable by the human ear doesn't translate into what one hears in a simple musical sense, which is a totally dry sound.  The proof of this is that no one ever uses the Silent Stage samples in an actual performance without adding some kind of reverb - they would sound far too dry.  But this allows any kind of reverb from hardware to MIR to Moog analog delay to be used.   

Exactly

This is what I meant by flexibility.  Thanks William, you've crystalized my thoughts quite eloquently here.

Let's not forget that creating a sonic environment can be an art form in itself.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
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