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Why not crowd-fund/source the Dorico 3.5 Expression Maps?
Last post Fri, Nov 06 2020 by lunar_28664, 16 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 01:27
by fanagiga
Joined on Sat, Mar 13 2004, Posts 23

Dear VSL Friends - 

Could you estimate the FTE hours required to make Dorico 3.5 maps for key instruments where it matters 'most', i.e., where verisimilitude most requires the ability to carefully trigger from numerous articulations?  

(FTE=Full Time Equivalent).  

Maybe you could organize a distributed, paid effort for this talented community to get paid to contribute high-quality maps?  Crowd-source it, essentially.  Already there is an effort underway (thanks to many talented, generous people) but perhaps some leadership/technical guidance from VSL could make it even better, get it done faster, and save your team from the distraction when you could be making new libraries instead?  

 

Here's how it would work:  Folks donate (I will personally kick in $1,000 for starters) to a 'goal' (specific goal, such as a specific instrument?  or to a 'general fund'?)  Tasks are put up on 'Upwork' by VSL (say, 'EM's for Synchron Violins, the full instrument) with a 'prize' for completion, and estimated FTE-hours to get it done, based on your experience.  Someone in the community agrees to do it right, vetted by VSL, but paid for by donations.  They are awarded the contract (people could collaborate, too, Upwork supports this).  When they finish, you trigger the milestone and they get paid.  Folks in the community who are good at this could also bid to complete the project for a given amount.  Again, when the maps are made to VSL's/the community's satisfaction, VSL (who controls the Upwork account) triggers the milestone, and the community member gets paid. 

What do you think?  I will put (some of) my money where my mouth is.  Anyone else?

All the best, 

Eric

Eric Keisman
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 05:22
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2671

Hello

Andy is THE MAN for Expression Maps but apparently he does not like Dorico.

As Andy has done all the Expression Maps for Cubase, it should not take him too much time to convert them to Dorico

Maybe VSL has not Dorico ? 

There are some expression Maps on Dorico's forum

I have tried to make a deal with VSL, the answer is : you do it for free !

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 07:19
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3297

Hello Eric and Cyril!

Dorico Expression Maps for our SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions are soon to be released.

Cyril, please don't spread false rumours like I don't like Dorico. That's not true and ridiculous.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 08:27
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2671

Hello Andi

We are waiting since 4 years for Dorico's expression maps !

Happy to know you are working on it

What about VI libs ?

Best

 

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 08:54
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3297

Hello Cyril!

Currently there are no plans to create Dorico Expression Maps for our VI libraries in the nearer future.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 09:02
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2671
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 09:13
by fanagiga
Joined on Sat, Mar 13 2004, Posts 23

Hi Andi, Cyril - 

 

Thanks for responding. 

Andi:  Am I missing something, or do we already have expression maps for the 'big one', i.e., Synchron Strings?  I'm a hobbyist, so not as familiar with what's out there as some of your customers.  If not, are you planning on making such an expression map?   Or is it perhaps not worth it, i.e., it will be very difficult to automate the full expression of the library even with the expression maps in Dorico, and one is better off working in Cubase?  Or does Dorico have the ability (through controllers, etc. on top of key switches) to access the full palette of VSL, and this is just a matter of not having the resources to create the expression maps?  

My dream (as a hobbyist for 30 years) is to be able to access all of the verisimilitude available in these libraries without having to program extensively, or even, at all - just write the music a la Staffpad and the 'interpretation engine' takes over, with a few controls available for drawing curves, etc.  

My offer to crowd fund the effort stands!  Perhaps I am naively underestimating the scale of the effort...

All the best, 

Eric

Eric Keisman
Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2020 13:44
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3297

Hello Eric!

The Dorico Expression Maps for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions will be the first ones that we release. Some users have made Dorico Expression Maps for other libraries and posted about them here on the forum.

Before we think about what libraries might be next to create Dorico Expression Maps for, we have to finish the ones for SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions, check out how much demand is there and how they are received.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Sep 17 2020 11:26
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 393

Originally Posted by: fanagiga Go to Quoted Post

Am I missing something, or do we already have expression maps for the 'big one', i.e., Synchron Strings?  

Hi Eric,

I think you know this, but to be sure: Paul Walmsley from Steinberg created an expression map for Synchron Strings. Here is a link.

Synchron Strings Expression map

Posted on Sat, Sep 19 2020 21:55
by fanagiga
Joined on Sat, Mar 13 2004, Posts 23

Hey MMKA - 

I wasn't aware of that particular set.  Thanks for the link!

Happy composing, 

Eric

Eric Keisman
Posted on Wed, Oct 14 2020 17:47
by EricNJ
Joined on Tue, Aug 25 2015, Posts 30

I would kick in $100 (US) to get Expression Maps for Solo Strings.

Posted on Mon, Oct 19 2020 02:39
by fanagiga
Joined on Sat, Mar 13 2004, Posts 23

Hey EricNJ et al -

I'll re-designate my original $1k for just solo strings too!  There have to be some experts out there that can get this one done?  Conditions:  Veracity/quality to be confirmed by Andi!

Happy composing everyone..., 

Eric

Eric Keisman
Posted on Wed, Oct 28 2020 13:16
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 93

why on earth would you want to crowdfund something like this when a few people have already created maps and have made them available for free download on the Dorico forum.  Of course the natural answer is that you want the highest quality. The problem is that many of the libraries are so complex that everyone will use them in different ways. I'm perfectly happy with my own sy-ed solo strings maps and if I used anyone else's would certainly have to adjust them to my own tastes. Likewise, I would expect anyone using mine to also make  adjustments to suit their own requirements as this is a complex library which can be configured in many different ways. That's not to say that a library with strong input and quality-checking by VSL wouldn't be valuable -- of course it would.

Having said that, I'm interested what the "official" VSL maps for the rather simpler Synchron-ized SE will be like when they are released, (maybe next Wednesday along with the video). I do hope they support all the latest features in Dorico as that will make it easier to see if I might have missed a trick or two when designing my own. And I'm sure they will be invaluable for those who don't have the time or inclination to go down that road.

Posted on Thu, Nov 05 2020 21:36
by EricNJ
Joined on Tue, Aug 25 2015, Posts 30

As far as I can tell there is nothing currently available for Solo Strings - that is my need.

Posted on Thu, Nov 05 2020 21:55
by GilP
Joined on Thu, Aug 31 2017, Posts 76

Hello,

I don't know if you're looking for VI or Synchron, but for information Dorico Expression Maps for Synchron Solo Strings can be found here:

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=191899

Regards,

Gil.

Posted on Fri, Nov 06 2020 09:35
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 93

as well as Gil's suggestion, you can try out my latest (and a previous version) here https://www.steinberg.ne...c.php?p=1018457#p1018457

In theory, all the maps are supposed by collected by the Dorico board into one single sticky (which you may well have seen) but it is far from complete so you need to hunt around a bit. I repeat my caution that the Solo Strings are too complex for any single map to provide all the answers to everyone and most will want to modify a few things at least according to taste. Mine are based on the "Basic" template but with modifications and are designed primarily for the classical string quartet/quintet/sextet.

For VI there are to my knowledge, only the Cubase maps, though I could be wrong. VSL are not going to support VI maps from what I understand.

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