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Licence question...
Last post Thu, Nov 20 2008 by herb, 25 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Feb 12 2006 21:49
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
Hi...

I'm one of the guys whos a little sad about not being able to have the same collection on two different computers. If I want that anyway, what would it cost me?

My ideal setup would be to have a template of the stuff I use most, spread out over 5 computers. Once loaded I want to forget about these computers, and never load more stuff on them - they always boot up using the same template. Then on my main DAW I would like to have all the collections so I can load what I need of extra stuff for a song, and then save it within the cubase project.

How would that work license wise? Anyway this is really a case of how CP systems tamper with the workflow and ease of use for honest paying musicians Sad
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 00:05
by Mike Greene
Joined on Fri, Aug 12 2005, Los Angeles, CA, Posts 13
I like to work the same way, though I don't use as many computers. You're right that this is an example of CP being a problem.

- Mike Greene
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 13:57
by Dom
Joined on Sat, Nov 13 2004, London, Posts 224
Yes, I work exactly in the same way (one external PC with most commonly used instruments, then loading extra instruments in Logic' EXS as needed). Especially on a film score with 40-60 cues it is important not to have to reload all machines for every cue. I think there are quite a few others who will have the same problem, and it is the reason for me not to order VI yet. It's a shame there is no "networked" dongle option.

There may however be a workaround that's crossed my mind: Could the dongle be removed once a tremplate is loaded?

In my case this could mean I load the "template" PC in the morning, then move the dongle over to Logic for the rest of the day.

This could be a a honest way to split VI across several machines. I doubt that I'd sell my dongle on Ebay once I loaded my template - in the hope the PC will run for years and years without ever having to be switched off or crashing...

Dom
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 14:26
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
I just hope for some kind of solution which does not involve me shelling out loads of extra cash. I'm already setting money aside for MIR and an extra computer to handle it!

I really need to be able to do this
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 17:29
by timkiel
Joined on Fri, Jun 06 2003, Posts 627
Dom wrote:

There may however be a workaround that's crossed my mind: Could the dongle be removed once a tremplate is loaded?
Dom


It depends upon how the VSTi is coded, most of the new VSTis (e.g. VG2, Virtual Bassist etc) and CubaseSX3 all regularly communicate with the dongle so if you remove it the PC crashes and the applications stop.

I guess VI will be the same.

Best

Tim
Intel Mac Pro (2 x 2.66 Xeon Dual Core, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 7300GT), RME Fireface 800, OS 10.6.4, Logic 9.1.1 (64-bit mode)
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 17:51
by Dom
Joined on Sat, Nov 13 2004, London, Posts 224
It would be interesting to hear the official line on this, either

1. if the VI coding allows removal of dongle after loading, or otherwise

2. if there is a reduction in price for buying another licence to run the same collection again for use on a another computer

3. if a networked dongle system is planned

Dom
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2006 18:24
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
4) free extra license for this kind of setup for those who need it

Smile

But yes - please someone chime in on this. Its an extremely important issue to me, and a few others it seems.
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 02:28
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
I asked a while back about this as my current workflow uses VSL Pro on 2 computers in the same room (1 for creation/production/scoring) one for mixing and score checking/printing for orchestra). This model will no longer work with a dongle.

Realistically, unless someone comes up with a different solution, we will end up with a scoring package of reduced flexibility compared with previous VSL products or VSL will have to rely on the honesty of users not selling/giving away a second dongle should they give pro users the flexibility they need!

Difficult call in todays no trust community.

Julian
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 09:24
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
It would make sense to authorise site licences, in the same way that many other software companies do.

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 09:26
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
DG wrote:
It would make sense to authorise site licences, in the same way that many other software companies do.

DG


Hi DG... can you elaborate what this implies and entails?
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 09:40
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Christian Marcussen wrote:
DG wrote:
It would make sense to authorise site licences, in the same way that many other software companies do.

DG


Hi DG... can you elaborate what this implies and entails?

Basically you buy one version, and then subsequent versions are sold at reduced cost, on the understanding that they are used in the same venue. It is designed for places like schools and colleges where multiple copies are in use, but many people in this industry use it for applications like Gigastudio, where one needs to run multiple copies.

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 10:02
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
Right - but with something like VSL the reduced cost would have to be really significant to make it viable.

Thanks DG
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 12:14
by Dom
Joined on Sat, Nov 13 2004, London, Posts 224
A site license would however mean that it's used by more than one person.

What we are asking at the moment is that one workplace for one person can function flexibly without having to buy several full-price licenses.

Let's not forget that an extra Gigastudio Orchestra would only set you back £246 whereas another Symphonic Cube would be over £6000.

Dom
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 12:24
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dom wrote:
A site license would however mean that it's used by more than one person.
Dom


Not necessarily; it could mean that both licences were allowed to be operated at the same time. There are example where you are allowed two installs, but are not allowed to use both at once!

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 12:26
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dom wrote:
Let's not forget that an extra Gigastudio Orchestra would only set you back £246 whereas another Symphonic Cube would be over £6000.

Dom

I can't remember what percentage of the original cost my extra GS licences cost, but it was not full price.

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 12:49
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508
It was about half the original price IIRC... that would be far too much for VSL... In all honesty I hardly think it should cost anything at all considering the current price of the VI. What I really liked about Pro. Ed and Viennas license policy was that I could do just about what I wanted to do, and on as many computers as I felt I needed - I always hated systems like NI's "install on two computers only" system... Along with Spectrasonics, VSL were (are?) among the best in regard to licenses.
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 12:52
by Dom
Joined on Sat, Nov 13 2004, London, Posts 224
Of course, DG. I'm just trying to sayt that when we ask for a site-licence it doesn't mean that it is going to be used by a whole company but by an individual who is forced to use more than one computer because of RAM limitations. And also that comparisons with Gigastudio, Logic etc are dangerous as they only cost a fraction of VI.

Dom
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 13:02
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dom wrote:
Of course, DG. I'm just trying to sayt that when we ask for a site-licence it doesn't mean that it is going to be used by a whole company but by an individual who is forced to use more than one computer because of RAM limitations. And also that comparisons with Gigastudio, Logic etc are dangerous as they only cost a fraction of VI.

Dom

I totally understand. My suggestion would be that although VSL should set a site licence price (maybe the equivalent cost of original side licences), it should have to be applied for and, up to a point, justified by the end user. If there was an automatic granting with no communication then it would open up a can of worms that VSL is obviously trying to avoid by swapping to a CP system in the first place. I certainly don't want to be paying more in the future because some unscrupulous people have "lent" their spare dongles to their mates! I think that those people who need more than 1 licence would find it very easy to justify (as you have) so there ought not to be a problem.

Just my £0.02 worth

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 15:52
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
As far as I know, Syncrosoft does not have any plans for a network tongle solution.
And I'm very sorry that we cannot offer price reduced 2nd or 3rd licenses.
Fact is, that we don't have any possibility to prohibit a resale of a price reduced 2nd license. (maybe even to a higher price!)
Therefor we can offer multiple licenses only to public educational institutions (instutions where we theoretically could check if our licenses are not abused).

best
Herb
Posted on Tue, Feb 14 2006 16:48
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
not only theoretically - of course except the responsible person gives away her/his login, but i'd assume actually nobody want's to see her/his license related login data floating around the web ...

as far as we talk about getting around RAM limitations - it is possible to move collections to a second computer (content, license) and run additional instances there

christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
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