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Load Times in Logic
Last post Wed, Jun 14 2006 by julian, 59 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 06:27
by JJRoach
Joined on Thu, Mar 02 2006, Los Angeles, CA USA, Posts 87
Has anyone gotten decreaed load times with this library yet?...I just upgraded both the VI plugin as well as the License Center application...and I'm still disappointed with the load times...I just saw a thread on here about DP's good performance (I love Logic, but thinking about switching to DP for a number of reasons)...but wondering what the word on the street is...

a few things:

I haven't rebuilt my folder structure in the Directory Manager yet (next on the list)

It's only the initial load of a VI that takes a really long time...I always have my activity monitor on...and from observation, I've concluded that once the VSL-deamon/vsl server is up, everything is ok.

-also, I'm sure there's a very complicated reason for this...but, why, when I'm in Logic, do I have to click on the "show GUI window" to see the VI interface?...(I'm that this is because when used as a plug-in, what the sequencer actually boots up is a server...like Re-Wire...that interacts with the VSL Server/Daemon)

...also, in addition to having to click again to see the interface, it takes at least a couple of seconds to access the VI interface.

I know these two complaints I have will go away once I have the library all learned, and my presets set up (and the channel presets set up in Logic)...but it just seems like this plug-in takes WAY longer to interface with (I will say, that once working with the VI console, everything is wonderful) this plug-in than any other on earth.

thanks.

Josh

PS...I'm continually amazed at how much better this library sounds than any others I've used!...and the flexibility...Bravo
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 13:45
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
I've just installed the remainder of the Symphonic Cube and load time for the first VI is 7 minutes (if I do a session in Abbey Road that's going to cost almost $100 in studio time to open the first VI !)

My computer system is pretty much the same as VSL used to do their timing tests and performance data. Before installation of the second 5 titles launch time was 2:30.


Now at 7 minutes it is a major issue in a pro workflow (subsequent instrument launches are almost instant) An updated representative load time from VSL for their Logic/G5 system with the Symphonic Cube fully loaded (plus Appassionata Strings) to confirm my load time is normal would be useful.

Also an indication of what causes such long initialisation times and will they become shorter with software development!

Thanks

Julian.
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 14:15
by Maya
Joined on Tue, Nov 25 2003, Vienna/Europe, Posts 841
Hi Julian,

loading times which exceed 60 seconds for the 1st instance of the Vienna Instrument are not normal.

I have the complete Symphonic Cube installed on a G5 2.5 Dual/4GB RAM and on a iMac G5 1.8/2GB RAM (using FW 400 harddrives) here and my loading times are:

1st instance of VI: 30 to max. 60 seconds
other instances: 1-2 seconds

Obviously the scanning of the licenses takes for too long in your case.
I ´d suggest to remove all folders from your Directory Manager and to add them again. Before doing so open the application activity monitor from applications/utilities and choose <quit> for the processes <VSL server> and <vsldaemon> if they are still active.
Check with the button <custom folders> if a folder was created. This folder should be named <Vienna Instruments Custom Data> and saved to your internal harddrive.
In case that this folder is missing, please create one and add it to the Directory Manager too.

It might also help to change the USB slot of your Vienna Key or to un- and replug it.

Best,

M a y a
/Maya - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 15:57
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
Hi Maya,

Thanks for the response. I followed your instructions and there is no improvement.

I deleted all the folders from directory (it was listing the main folder "VSL" as well as all the various instrument folders) I added just the main folder again. The VI launchesd in 18 seconds but with no instruments. I then deleted the main folder in directory manager and added all the individual folders.

Launching took 7 minutes again but all instruments are recognized.

I've tried changing USB positions for the Vienna Key (it's currently directly in the G5)

Synchrosoft licence control launches and recognizes all my licences in about 3 seconds.

So still no improvement. Ay other ideas?

Thanks

Julian

PS a directory called "Custom Data" exists in my Vienna Instruments folder which is on an external SATA raid but not on the internal drive. It doesn't have any files in it except some of my presets.
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 17:15
by plowman
Joined on Sat, Dec 13 2003, Posts 1126
"Synchrosoft licence control launches and recognizes all my licences in about 3 seconds."

Julian, may I assume that this is the time for a direct launching of the License Manager, apart from Logic? Mine launches in perhaps five seconds (slower computer), but when I start Logic, it says "Scanning Licenses" for about three minutes.

I have only five of the Cube series. My template launch is about 8:30. Before 1.06, it took 8:54 -- perhaps the improvement was from the slightly smaller ssample footprint.
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 17:37
by cKaz
Joined on Sat, Nov 06 2004, Montreal, Canada, Posts 54
I also was having this problem but I found that the VI key was on a USB hub that wasn't powered. I dont know if that is a big hint but now it takes about 4 secs to come up.

Chris

dual 1.8 G5, Logic Pro 7.2.1
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 17:50
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
Plowman wrote:
"Synchrosoft licence control launches and recognizes all my licences in about 3 seconds."

Julian, may I assume that this is the time for a direct launching of the License Manager, apart from Logic? Mine launches in perhaps five seconds (slower computer), but when I start Logic, it says "Scanning Licenses" for about three minutes.

I have only five of the Cube series. My template launch is about 8:30. Before 1.06, it took 8:54 -- perhaps the improvement was from the slightly smaller ssample footprint.


Yes direct launching takes 3 seconds. Maya reports above that launching the first instance of VI in Logic (after Logic has booted) should take 30-60 seconds with my set-up and Vienna Instruments (Symphonic Cube + Appassionata)

Julian
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 20:16
by nord
Joined on Thu, Oct 09 2003, Posts 4
Since I installed the Syncrosoft Update and the complete Cube, the loading of the first VI in Logic takes 7 Minutes as described by Julian. I use the front USB of my G5.
Is it a Syncrosoft-Problem or something else?
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 20:37
by plowman
Joined on Sat, Dec 13 2003, Posts 1126
Thanks, Julian.

If Maya means that, when launching Logic, the "Scanning Licenses" prompt plus the loading of the first VI instance shouldn't take more than a minute, then I do have a technical problem.

I'll launch Logic, watch it load the program, EXS one, two -- and then it hits the first VI instance, "Scanning Licenses" (Syncrosoft) comes up, and that's it. Nothing more happens for about three minutes.

When Syncrosoft finally initializes, "Loading data, please wait" follows (VI sample loading begins). From there, it's another four minutes or so for all sample data (VI's and EXS) to load.

Does VSL or anyone else have thoughts on why an independent launch of Syncrosoft would take me five seconds, and launching Logic with VI instances takes Syncrosoft three minutes?

I've tried to launch Syncrosoft first independently, and then Logic. But "Scanning Licenses" still comes up and takes just as long.
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 21:19
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
Also launching Vienna Instrument standalone app also takes 7 minutes on my system so it's not a Logic/AU issue.

Are other users experiencing 7 minute load times on the full cube?

Wonder if Maya has a retail version of VI or a factory version bypassing the Syncrosoft licence?

30"- 1 minute load times would be OK - how can this be achieved?

thanks

Julian
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 21:43
by PierreFunck
Joined on Tue, Feb 14 2006, Zurich, Posts 114
I can confirm that loading the first instance (standalone!) takes more than 5 minutes on my system. The "Scanning licenses" prompt only appears for 1-2 seconds, then apparently nothing happens for about 5 minutes (the dock icon even stops bouncing, without displaying the little black wedge to show that the application is running!), and then finally the GUI appears.

Syncrosoft license control center 5.0.3b, PowerMac G5 quad, 4.5 GB RAM, Mac OS 10.4.5, Vienna key directly plugged into one of the rear USB ports.
Posted on Fri, Jun 02 2006 22:37
by Jack Weaver
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Tucson, AZ, Posts 391
Julian, Plowman et al,

Seven minutes here.
Mac Master:
2010 Mac Pro 12-core. 3.46GHz, 64 GB RAM, OSX 10.12.3, Logic Pro X 10.3.1 ,VEP5, SSD system drive, etc.

PC Slave:
12-core e5650, 48 GB RAM, Win7, MIR Pro/VEP5, SSD system drive
Posted on Sat, Jun 03 2006 23:29
by JJRoach
Joined on Thu, Mar 02 2006, Los Angeles, CA USA, Posts 87
Hey all,

Julian, thanks for following up with Maya on this thread...I got busy and didn't have time to explain what you just did.

I just followed Maya's instructions with the directory manager (some small differences that I'll change right now to follow the instructions completely, like having a custom folder on the internal drive...and making sure, again, that the server and the daemon processes are down when I delete and add again).

Mine just took about 6.5 minutes to load.

Maya: is there perhaps something we need to be doing with the actual allocation of the library itself???

I mean, I have the library distributed amongst 4 external firewire drives (3 connected to a Firewire PCI expansion card, and the other coming in via daisy chain to another drive into my main firewire bus in the G5 tower...)...all firewire 800.

and amongst those drives, I have each "cube" of the library in a different folder, and within those folders, a subdirectory for each instrument that contains all of the .dat files. should we all look into consolidating?

what is your file allocation..and I believe that you may have said at one point that your dongle is connected to the back of an Apple Cinema Display (just like mine), correct?

Since you obviously aren't experiencing the slow load times that we are, I'm wondering what exactly is different between our setups.

Josh
PS...so far, I'm experimenting with all this in Standalone mode.
Posted on Sun, Jun 04 2006 01:21
by JJRoach
Joined on Thu, Mar 02 2006, Los Angeles, CA USA, Posts 87
ok...an update for load times...

1)I've tried to consolidate my .dat files...

so, on each hard drive, all of the .dat files are in the same folder


2) I realized I didn't get the MOST up-to-date VI app or Syncrosoft App, so I upgraded

3)made sure daemon and server were not running...redid the directory manager...there are (because of the consolidation described above) only 4 folders...made sure my custom folder was on my internal harddrive.

4)in License Control Center...went to "Help-License Database Update"...then quit the app.

5)my USB ViennaKey WAS in the back of my Cinema Display, but, I plugged it into the back of my tower.

...still about 6 minutes to load

...now, I had a few other programs running (iChat, Safari, Quicktime, activity monitor, and my digidesign coreaudio manager), but I don't think they really should have affected any load times I'd have.

I can't think of anything I can do to streamline...again, what do you have, Maya??

Any thoughts anyone.

Sorry for the long post...these are a total pain in the butt to read, but I know a lot of us have been dealing with long load times.

Josh
Posted on Sun, Jun 04 2006 01:39
by JJRoach
Joined on Thu, Mar 02 2006, Los Angeles, CA USA, Posts 87
sorry, I meant to ask this in the last post...

in the Syncrosoft Center:

does everyone out there have a "Collection" for each "Cube" of the VI???

I've got 10 collections...that look like this:

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Orchestra Violins/Violas

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Chanber Strings

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Solo Strings

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Orchestra Celli/Bassi

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Woodwind I

-Collection
--Vienna Instrument
--Woodwind II


...and so forth.

the reason I ask, is that, perhaps having them all in separate collections is what makes loading so slow..??...although, I suspect that doing all in 1 'collection' would disable the ability to spread licenses over multiple dongles.

Josh
Posted on Sun, Jun 04 2006 19:15
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
Maya wrote:
Hi Julian,

loading times which exceed 60 seconds for the 1st instance of the Vienna Instrument are not normal.

I have the complete Symphonic Cube installed on a G5 2.5 Dual/4GB RAM and on a iMac G5 1.8/2GB RAM (using FW 400 harddrives) here and my loading times are:

1st instance of VI: 30 to max. 60 seconds
other instances: 1-2 seconds


Best,

M a y a


The issue appears to be all respondents so far are reporting 1st instance start times of around 7 minutes regardless of whether it's standalone or in a host (can someone report how times compare on the PC platform)

I'm guessing here but is the issue a Syncrosoft problem? and is Maya able to achieve 30 second load times if his system bypasses the licence scanning process? (in-house system no licence required?)

Only a guess but I'd be delighted to achieve a 30 second boot time - 7 minutes to boot a plug-in, and that is without loading any sample RAM, is a little hard to accept.

Maya can you put a little light on this issue?

Thanks

Julian

PS in answer to Josh my licences also show up as separate collections which is what I would expect given that they have different registration numbers.
Posted on Sun, Jun 04 2006 19:30
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Maya is on vacation at the moment.
What I can tell you is, that Maya (and all other Mac testers in our company) are testing under "real world conditions" that means with the original released versions.

best
Herb
Posted on Sun, Jun 04 2006 20:14
by JJRoach
Joined on Thu, Mar 02 2006, Los Angeles, CA USA, Posts 87
Thanks Herb, Looking forward to hear more on this...kind of a major useability issue.


josh
Posted on Mon, Jun 05 2006 04:02
by pianoman
Joined on Fri, Mar 25 2005, USA, Posts 62
Over 7 minutes for first launch here too. In Logic or standalone. What are all of us doing wrong?
Posted on Mon, Jun 05 2006 13:28
by Maya
Joined on Tue, Nov 25 2003, Vienna/Europe, Posts 841
JJRoach wrote:

...now, I had a few other programs running (iChat, Safari, Quicktime, activity monitor, and my digidesign coreaudio manager), but I don't think they really should have affected any load times I'd have.

I can't think of anything I can do to streamline...again, what do you have, Maya??


Hi,

I suggest to try the following

1) before inserting the first VI, switch from <Digidesign Core Audio Driver> to <Built in Audio> in <Hardware and Drivers> in Logic.
Try what happens now when you load the 1st instance of the Vienna
Instrument

2) try the following either with Digidesign or Built in Audio Driver:
Delete all your content from the Directory Manager - so there aren´t any licenses which need to be scanned, the 1st Vienna Instrument should open very fast now, like any other application would.

M a y a

Ps.: I am on vacation and at the risk of getting killed by my bf I will look at the forum from time to time. Otherwise Marnix will take care of your questions.
/Maya - Vienna Symphonic Library
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