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VE using only two cores in Logic
Last post Wed, Jun 04 2008 by chriskard, 32 replies.
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Posted on Thu, May 01 2008 12:38
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Using Vienna Ensemble, only two cores of my eight core Mac pro get used. They are easily overwhelmed in a composition using 14 instruments.
It doesn't make a difference, wether i use two or four instances of VE.
Is this normal?
I am running Leopard.
Posted on Sun, May 04 2008 11:41
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Since I've gotten no reply in the Vienna Instruments forum, i'll try again here.


I have trouble to play my compositions in Logic.
The CPU is easily overwhelmed, as soon as there are more than 10 instruments playing at once.
Logics CPU Monitor shows, that only two of my eight-cores in my Mac Pro are used.
OS Xs Acitivity Monitor shows a CPU usage of about 130% before the playback stops.


The composition is played through four instances of Vienna Ensemble, one each for woodwinds, brass, percussion and the strings.
The strings are the Appassionata Strings, the rest of the instruments are from the Special Edition.
I am using the Multi-Output version of VE to route the instruments back to Logic, where I apply Space Designer.


I am fairly new to Logic and VSL, so I might have made an obvious mistake.
It is very annoying, not to be able to playback the composition, when my computer stll has a lot of unused cpu resources.

For some reason, the forum removed all the line breaks in this text.
Posted on Sun, May 04 2008 12:18
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9058

johannet, i merged the threads since it appears to me an important information is missing: which logic and VE2 version?

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sun, May 04 2008 12:27
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Logic Pro 8.0.1

VE2 build 3173
Posted on Mon, May 05 2008 22:29
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Anyone?
This is a serious problem for me!
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 02:48
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Johannet:

I can't answer your main question, but to
get correct format on this forum use Firefox instead of Safari. You
don't mention what audio interface you are using.  Are you using multiple VE standalones or VE plugins? If you are using standalones, how are you routing audio back into Logic? How much RAM do you have. What drive are you using for samples? It's easier to help when we have a detailed picture of things. 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 09:31
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Thanks for answering, Steve.
I am using Opera, not Safari. I will now insert HTML code to get better formatting.

I am using VE plugins.
My computer has 6 gb of ram. My composition leaves plenty of free ram.
The Special Edition is on the stock Western Digital drive, that came with the computer. It's a 7200 rpm drive.
The Appassionata Strings are on a seperate harddisk. A Samsung F1 7200 rpm drive.
Logic and OS X are on a third disk. All disks are internal.


The harddisks and the ram shouldn't be the problem, since Logic shows a cpu problem.
I have the 2,8ghz Octa-Core MacPro.
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 12:05
by icgant_7585
Joined on Sat, Jul 31 2004, Posts 29
hello....I've just checked VE on my mac pro Quad 2.8 and all 4 cores are working..I also am using it as an AU plugin and my setup is similar, although I have my SE on just one hard disk...hope this is of help.
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 13:54
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Johannet:

At this point I would contact VSL support with a complete description of your system (you still did not mention what audio interface you are using if any) and the problem. One possibiliy that occurs to me is that, if you are using built-in-audio rather than an audio interface, you are not offloading any of the DSP processing so the CPUs are doing all the work. However, this is pure speculation and may have no bearing on the issue. Write to and they may have further insight.

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 17:24
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Thanks for your continued help.


I am not using an audio interface. The CPUs are doing all the work. The problem is, that just two of the eight cores are doing all the work. The CPU power should be more than enough for my needs.



I will also write an email to .
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 19:47
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

Please let us know what you learn from the folks at VSL. As to the efficacy of audio interfaces, when I first started using my then top-of-the-line dual 2.5GHz G5, audio performance was ok, when I started using a MOTU 2408, it became infinitely better and more reliable. However, obviously a 4 year old G5 is a far less powerful machine than yours - - so my experience might have little bearing. Also it certainly wouldn't explain why only two processors seem to be working during playback. How are you determining CPU usage - - with Logic 8's CPU meter (activated by keyboard command: option-x) - - or with Activity Monitor? Do they both show the same thing? 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Tue, May 06 2008 20:04
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
Logics CPU meter shows that the first core is used, but only slightly. I guess, it's Logics own calculations. The last two cores are maxed out, when more than ten instruments play. I assume, that is VEs usage.


OS Xs activity monitor shows VEs CPU Usage to be about 130% when the playback is about to stop.
Posted on Wed, May 07 2008 03:21
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Johannet:

I conducted a test with my now lowly dual 2.5GHz G5. Logic 8.01 was the MIDI source. I created two VE2 standalones, each loaded with about 2GB of samples and played back a fairly dense score. (Each of the standalones took several minutes to open - - almost convincing me that somehing had gone wrong, bu they eventually opened and worked.) One instance of Altiverb (a known consumer of CPU power) was also instantiated. Activity Monitor showed overal User CPU consumption at about 65% during playback. Logic's CPU meters indicated 1/3 CPU usage.Each VE standalone indicated between 10- and 40% CPU consumption  during playback - - depending on the density of events. No digital artifacts of any kind occurred during playback. This may indicate the efficacy of the MOTU 2408 (an audio interface of some kind is necessary to loop the outputs of VE standalones back into Logic), or some other factor that enables me to get better performance on my now elderly dual G5 than you can presently obtain on your 8 core Intel machine. Again, I strongly advise you to contact VSL support. 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 09 2008 16:24
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Johannet:

I'd be most interested to know if you've contacted VSL support or learned anything about what was causing your CPU overload. If you've leaned something, it might be useful to others.

Thanks,

Stephen 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 09 2008 16:37
by Johannet
Joined on Tue, Oct 23 2007, Posts 53
I completely agree.
I sent an email to VSL support, but haven't gotten any reply.
Frankly, I am disappointed by this lack of support. All I am expecting is an acknowledgment, that someone is looking into this matter.

Posted on Fri, May 09 2008 17:43
by Nick Batzdorf
Joined on Tue, Apr 29 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 2543
Quote:
an audio interface of some kind is necessary to loop the outputs of VE standalones back into Logic




Actually it isn't - the VE plug-in does that for you.
Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.46 GHz, 64MB RAM, latest macOS available. Metric Halo 2882 interface.

VisionDAW Windows 7 Pro i7 950 3.07 4-core, 24GB RAM. Has an RME Hammerfall HDSP9632, but I just use VE Pro. Also several ancient P4 XP slaves, rarely used.
Posted on Fri, May 09 2008 20:56
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

Nick:

It would be most helpful to me and, I suspect, other forum participants if you would describe exactly how to accomplish this with a VE standalone - - not functioning as a plugin within Logic or DP, but addressed through the IAC ports.  The VE plugin instantiated within a DAW obviously does not need such a loopback configuration but works as do other multi-channel plugins. If you do mean the standalone addressed through the IAC ports, are you referring to VE2 or VE3?

Thanks,

Stephen 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Sat, May 10 2008 01:36
by Nick Batzdorf
Joined on Tue, Apr 29 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 2543
I don't have VE3 yet. It's actually very simple: you insert the plug-in in your sequencer. VE launches. Inside VE you load up Vienna Instruments. You assign each V.I. a MIDI input and channel at the top of its window. For the input you select "Plugin MIDI in," and then each V.I. should normally have its own MIDI channel. You don't need to use IAC busses.


That's about it. The audio comes into the channel where the VE plug-in is inserted.


There's one slightly tricky thing in Logic: how to address individual MIDI channels. I forget how you do it in Logic 8 - it's undoubtedly easier - but in 7 the quickest way is to go into the Environment and create a new MultiInstrument, then cable it to the Instrument channel strip containing the VE.


However, I prefer to create multiple (for example) Instrument 1s in an Environment layer, then assign each one of these Instrument 1s to a different MIDI channel (it'll look like you have VEs on each one, but of course there's really only one). You can then name each one - flute, clar, oboe, etc. You just command/click on the instrument you want to assign to the selected track in the Arrange window; I have a screenset with a narrow Arrange window on the left and this Environment layer on the right just for track assignments.


For some reason the channel strip names aren't automatically copied to the track with VE the way they normally are, but it's still the easiest way to do it for my money.


Then you can also open V.I. plug-ins, and neither one takes any of the sequencer's memory.



Please don't ask me how to get multiple outputs - I'm too lazy. :)
Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.46 GHz, 64MB RAM, latest macOS available. Metric Halo 2882 interface.

VisionDAW Windows 7 Pro i7 950 3.07 4-core, 24GB RAM. Has an RME Hammerfall HDSP9632, but I just use VE Pro. Also several ancient P4 XP slaves, rarely used.
Posted on Sat, May 10 2008 15:11
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Nick:

What you are describing is using VE as a plugin within Logic - - not using it as a standalone. BTW, the "tricky thing" with Logic is that, although one may have 16 different instruments loaded into the VE plugin, Logic will send the same MIDI Volume (CC7) data to all channels simultaneously. For this reason, to obtain changes in dynamic level on individual channels, one must use MIDI Expression (CC11).

The advantage of using the VE standalone are:

1. The VE Template can be saved separately from the Logic or DP file, so that when you open another file (or a file in another MIDI program) that uses the same instrumentation, the instruments do not have to reload.

2. You can use it as the playback object for programs which will not load VE (such as Finale which is currently restricted to "powered by Native Instruments" plugins).

3. You can create multiple instances of the standalone with each instance inhabiting its own memory partion - - each instance being able to load about 2.5GB of samples. When multiple VE plugins are instantiated within Logic, it is my understanding that they inhabit the same memory partition and are, therefore, restricted to about 3GB of loaded samples (+ an additional 3GB of VI plugins instantiated in Software Instrument channel strips.

4. You can run multiple VE standalones outside of Logic and load another 3GB of VI plugins within Logic giving you access to still more RAM.

5. When an OSX compatible 64 bit version of VE becomes available you (theoretically at least) will have unlimited access to RAM without potential conflicts with 32 bit DAW software.

For users who want to use the VE standalone (as distinct from the VE plugin) having an audio interface with loopback features is highly desirable.  

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Sat, May 10 2008 15:51
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 395
"Regarding #4 . "You can run multiple VE standalones outside of Logic and load another 3GB of VI plugins within Logic giving you access to still more RAM."



That sounds very good, but how do you run multiple VE standalones outside of logic ?



Can you elaborate on this a little more ....



Do you just launch VE more than once ? or ... ? and how do you deal with the midi and audio between LP8 and each standalone instance of the VE, and are you referring to VE2 or VE3 ?



I'm planning to purchase the VI-SE in the very near future, and this is quite an important detail that could make a big difference as far as performance is concerned.



Thanks.
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