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VE with Gigastudio?
Last post Wed, Oct 14 2009 by cgernaey, 24 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Oct 05 2009 15:04
by paul_23530
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 5

Hi (very interested in buying VE)

Can anyone tell if this is possible?....

PC as slave, running Gigastudio and sending it's audio to VE on the same slave PC with VE thus the audio sending over LAN to my mac?

Soundflower (but a PC version) would sort this out...  I think.

Basically... Can VE as standalone server accept input from an internal sound source (e.g. Soundcard input or other audio device - virtual or otherwise) and send it down its LAN connection?

Rewire support would be ideal; but in its absence, is there another way?

Posted on Mon, Oct 05 2009 15:31
by Tripi
Joined on Wed, Sep 23 2009, Posts 16
I was thinking about this exact same scenario... but I'm more interested in replacing my Wormhole plugins with VE. Right now, I have Wormhole vst plugins sending audio over LAN to my Mac running DP. Any chance of ever seeing a VE plugin that does the same thing, but sends to the VE Pro host on a Mac?
Posted on Mon, Oct 05 2009 16:19
by mmueller
Joined on Mon, Sep 28 2009, Posts 119
You could use fxmax giga vst adapter and use Gigastudio with VE pro. Should work. I think they have a demo. Another and in my opionion better option would be using Samplelord. This is an 80EUR Sampleplayer VSTi that reads giga files natively and scales very good. A 64 bit version is in the works. Allready available as 64 and 32 bit version is Linuxsampler VSTi which is freeware. With Samplelord and with Linuxsampler you could switch articulations on the fly with program change messages from your sequencer. Linuxsampler does work very well too and it's available for free.

What I don't know is if the Performance Tool could be used with VE Pro since I don't own the old libraries. But I think that should be possible, too.

The linuxsampler website is down right now - I guess they move the site because of their new releases. I have the latest Win VST version here and could mail it to you if you want.
Posted on Mon, Oct 05 2009 17:23
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 906

 Is Samplelord any better than Kontakt for playing Gig libraries?

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Oct 05 2009 23:02
by mmueller
Joined on Mon, Sep 28 2009, Posts 119
Bill wrote:

 Is Samplelord any better than Kontakt for playing Gig libraries?



Definetly better. Kontakt translates the gig files - by that you loose always something. Converting giga files to Kontakt does not work 100%. Samplelord just plays back the original giga sounds. There is no conversion necessary. It scales up to 8 cores and is fast. I think one instance has up to 2000 voices. As I recall you can even start several 32bit vsti instances so that each instance has its own memory enabeling you to go beyond VST limitations. I have Tascams GVI, too and Samplelord works a lot better and uses less Ram. What I like in particular is that it loads complete Giga Banks and gives you the opportunity to switch between instruments with program changes. The only thing is that the GUI of Samplelord looks plain awful. But for 80 eur it's a no brainer. It does not use dongles like GVI and I assume can be used with VE pro without any problems. I'll buy VE pro tomorrow and can report back.
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 02:33
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 906

 Cool; thanks!

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 12:39
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026

Another option is G-Player from soundlib.  I am using it for MAC and it works perfectly.  Natively opens giga files.  Now, they are currently working on a Windows platform of it as well.  On top of this, I have been in contact with Martin from VSL development and he claims he has resolved my issue with G-Player crashing VE Pro.  He said the next update to VE Pro they will work.

So there's another option for you because eventually you will be able to use it both on a MAC or PC with all your native giga files.

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
Vienna MIR PRO, Vienna Instruments, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Suite Pro, Cubase 7.5.5, Presonus Studio One 4.5
Lavry DA10 DAC, RME Multiface 2, Arturia Analog Experience 61-key
Lemur Control Surface
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 12:46
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 906

 Thanks!  Too bad I'll have to wait for the Win version.  Nice to have more keyboard showing, which is sort of a nuisance with Samplelord.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 13:00
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026

Yes, it's actually smart though they went straight for the MAC market since no one else did.  However, waiting for the windows is no problem for me at the moment.  G-Player also looks/feels a lot more like gigastudio to me.  It's very similar and extremely lean.  It uses almost no resources.

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
Vienna MIR PRO, Vienna Instruments, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Suite Pro, Cubase 7.5.5, Presonus Studio One 4.5
Lavry DA10 DAC, RME Multiface 2, Arturia Analog Experience 61-key
Lemur Control Surface
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 14:37
by mmueller
Joined on Mon, Sep 28 2009, Posts 119
Bill wrote:

 Thanks!  Too bad I'll have to wait for the Win version.  Nice to have more keyboard showing, which is sort of a nuisance with Samplelord.



Bill, if you send me an Email, I could mail you the new Win version of the free linuxsampler VSTi which also works perfectly fine on playing back giga samples. A 32bit and 64bit version is included.
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 15:51
by Tripi
Joined on Wed, Sep 23 2009, Posts 16
I'm curious about what is the best way to implent Gigastudio using these methods. Would you have a VE Pro host on a PC, and run G-Player or Linuxsampler as a VST instrument inside VE Pro? I use a pretty big gigastudio template, and one of the things that makes keep it around is the low latency and heavy work load handling. Does anyone with experience using these other giga format players know if they can keep up with a fully loaded gigastudio template? Sounds like a nice option if it works.
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 16:43
by mmueller
Joined on Mon, Sep 28 2009, Posts 119
Tripi wrote:
I'm curious about what is the best way to implent Gigastudio using these methods.


Well, it depends on your workflow. Giga-Player is essentially a Mac-Clone of Tascams GVI. It does not load banks. It loads one instrument per channel. So if you are used to work with one midi track per articulation this may be your solution. Samplelord loads per channel either a giga bank or a giga instrument. If you load a bank the you can switch on the fly between all instruments in the file. Furthermore you can combine several giga banks to a so called collection within Samplelord. Within these bank collectio you can again select all instruments by midi program change - and everything from one single track. I don't know exactly how the old VSL samples are organized but it would be possible to create a collection including for example all viola articulations and access all these from a single midi track. Linuxsampler works different. There you "map" all your instruments in a so called midi map. This is textfile that enables you to access all(!) mapped giga instruments via bank and program changes. The instrument is then loaded on the fly. To create a template you simply need to reserve 1 bar in your (midi) template with program changes for all the sounds you need. As soon as you play your song for the first time all preloads are made.
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 16:51
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 906

 Thanks, I sent you a PM

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 20:49
by plowman
Joined on Sat, Dec 13 2003, Posts 1051

"Another option is G-Player from soundlib.  I am using it for MAC and it works perfectly."

This is the first feedback I've heard on G-Player. I'd be skeptical of it, but it came from M2B, and he is thorough when he chases down tech issues. 

Jaded as I am, I'm amazed that Giga, a natively PC platform, OS X on a Mac, Logic 9.0.1 VE Pro, and G-Player can all just get along. I outsourced Giga for several years on a PC with a simple MIDI cable and a stereo out. So the idea of folding it into a Mac is appealing. And I am not alone. Most of us were driving both platforms one way or another back when VSL was a native Giga / EXS format. 

M2B, have you been able to play Giga legato instruments using VSL's mapper through G-Player within VE Pro? Does G-Player have a MIDI interpreter of its own to handle VSL legato instruments? Giga had its own MIDI mapper, as I recall, but I don't think it was linked to VSL's proprietary mapping. 

Posted on Tue, Oct 06 2009 21:27
by mmueller
Joined on Mon, Sep 28 2009, Posts 119
I know from Linuxsampler users that it is possible to run the performance tool successfully with "wine" - some kind of windows emulation - on linux so it shouldn't be a problem to run it on osx to, since wine is there available, too.
Posted on Wed, Oct 07 2009 02:57
by Tripi
Joined on Wed, Sep 23 2009, Posts 16
I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried using G-Player or GVI in VE Pro. I want to keep my PC around to run these giga instruments, but I love the idea do it inside of VE Pro and sending it back to my mac. Sound like GVI instruments inside of VE Pro on my PC slave is the most direct way of doing this. Just wondering if VE Pro can handle figuring out the latency issues from the PC running this.
Posted on Wed, Oct 07 2009 06:52
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723

G-Player crashes in the current Mac VEPro version, but this has been fixed and will work fine with the next update, which is ready and being tested as we speak.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Wed, Oct 07 2009 13:26
by mosso
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005, London, England, Posts 376

I've done a few tests with GVI on XP (hosted in VE PRO) and it seems to work fine.

I did try the G-Player a few months ago (I was looking for a Giga player - obviously I didn't check it in VE PRO) but had a few problems - in an A/B test the volume on the G-Player dropped in the middle of the crossfade. On GVI/Giga it stayed even. Otherwise I was very impressed. Can any of you using it say if this has been fixed?

M

Martin Thornton
<a href="http://www.mosso.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.mosso.co.uk</a>
Posted on Wed, Oct 07 2009 14:07
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026

Well I can say that I haven't been able to use it with VE Pro yet as I was the one to turn it in for Martin and he got it fixed (however I can't confirm this yet as I was only told it was fixed, I haven't actually been able to test it).  So once the update comes out I can tell you for sure how it works.

I am staring at my G-Player right now and going to try to answer some questions.

I actually don't use the VSL samples with G-Player.  I have a ton of libraries for giga but never purchased the VSL libraries back then.  My friend however does own the old giga opus 1.  He brought over his firewire drive with those on it and they all worked perfectly from what I seen.  We tested most every instrument in the library (loaded it up, and played it to hear if it popped or crackled etc.  It played the proper dynamic and patch as well so if it was a crescendo violin patch, it played it perfectly).  He also had a bunch of percussion that I don't own and all those worked.  We tested every percussion track.  The percussion was so good it made me realized that I need to buy the percussion library but I want MIR more at the moment I think lol.  Unfortunately for me to test anything for you I would need to have him bring his stuff over to do so.  But I can assure you the patches worked.  I don't know anything about the performance tool though because I wasn't using the library back then, and I have no idea how it interacts or works with the samples.

I can say that it's far more stable then Gigastudio ever was though.  Gigastudio was one of those things where you cringed when you started up the machine because you weren't sure if it was going to blue screen or if the machine would lock up and force you into Gigastudio Safemode.  G-Player has never caused me any crashes or Logic lockups (other then the compatibility between it and VE Pro).  When it first came out it had below acceptable playability with my samples.  However, they continued to update it and I worked with support, sending in logs and issues and it quickly become able to play almost 100% of all my libraries.  I think I have around 100GB of samples in giga format and there is only a few left that don't play accurately.  (actually off the top of my head, the only one that I can recall was GigaPiano 2). I think the GPulse files were screwing it up because it's built into that sample.  Whatever they have been doing in updates has worked.  It's a very simple player but hey it lets me use all my giga samples again.  It doesn't have the full potential of Gigastudio, but it does what I need it to do and doesn't crash Logic.  (It works perfectly in Mainstage as well and doesn't hog up my resources).

But honestly I could care less about that piano sample since I use Pianoteq now.  I do however WISH that Pianoteq sounded as good as my Giga PMI Bosendorfer 290.  Which by the way plays perfectly in G-Player.  I have a lot of garritan products (harp etc), I have the Notre Dame de Budapest organ which sounds incredible and works excellent.  To many to list here but the point is they all work fine.  My beloved Atema's Harpsichord and my Flemish Harpsochord work flawlessly too which makes me happy.  Oh and I do know we tested the old giga VSL Harp library and it worked perfectly as well.  The keyswitching in the program works and is very simple to use.

Half of my giga samples now a days are pointless because I have replaced them with better VSL patches but my harpsichords, guitars, voice of the apocalypse etc that I have for giga are still very good.  I also have some rare instruments that VSL doesn't make and it's nice to be able to mix those in my projects as well.

The G-Player does a stereo or multi-timbral player, or a solo g-player within your DAW.  It already uses little resources but then being able to freeze the tracks just makes it that much more useable and resource friendly.  Even if your giga sample wasn't programmed for key switching, you can initiate a stereo version of the player, and then load up to 16 articulations into that window and simply send midi channel changes to change patches.  It's worked fine for me that way.

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
Vienna MIR PRO, Vienna Instruments, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Suite Pro, Cubase 7.5.5, Presonus Studio One 4.5
Lavry DA10 DAC, RME Multiface 2, Arturia Analog Experience 61-key
Lemur Control Surface
Posted on Wed, Oct 07 2009 14:10
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026
mosso wrote:

I've done a few tests with GVI on XP (hosted in VE PRO) and it seems to work fine.

I did try the G-Player a few months ago (I was looking for a Giga player - obviously I didn't check it in VE PRO) but had a few problems - in an A/B test the volume on the G-Player dropped in the middle of the crossfade. On GVI/Giga it stayed even. Otherwise I was very impressed. Can any of you using it say if this has been fixed?

M

Can you tell me what samples you were using I might own them.  And how were you doing the crossfading?  I will try it for you if possible.

Oh and one more thing.  The demo they offer is the EXACT same thing as my full version except every 10-15 seconds it drops the volume about 80% and then back up.  So you can always download the demo, and keep trying it until it works for you but be aware that in the middle of your playing the volume will almost mute and grow, then mute and grow ever 15 seconds or so.

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
Vienna MIR PRO, Vienna Instruments, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Suite Pro, Cubase 7.5.5, Presonus Studio One 4.5
Lavry DA10 DAC, RME Multiface 2, Arturia Analog Experience 61-key
Lemur Control Surface
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