Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
Options
Go to last post
Posted on Thu, Feb 26 2015 09:45
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

I'm using the included standard expression maps for VSL SE1 PLUS in Cubase 8.

The expression maps work fine but I can't figure out how to accually use the keyswitches live with my keyboard as soon as I have loaded the expression map?

In other words it seems like loading the expression map disables the possibility to use live keyswitching?

/Erik

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2015 12:34
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

Problem solved and this thread is no longer an issue..

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2015 17:33
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2612

How did you solve your problem?

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Apr 27 2015 09:10
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

It was "solved" by not using expression maps... :)

Even though expression maps first seemed like a good aproach...  Steinberg has unfortunately not built the functionality to be used with a lot of expressions. There also seems to be the limitation that one keyswitch can be sent simultanesly.

Therefore...  I decided to go back to classic key switching (using the two lowest octaves only).

/Erik

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Mon, Apr 27 2015 10:47
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 316

Not sure about that "no multiple keyswitches" bit. I'm pretty sure I used to use simultaneous switches - how else would you be able to switch to an articulation in a different cell in another row or matrix?

At the moment, I use CC instead of keys for switching along the X and Y axis and keyswitches for the matrices, but obviously the concept is the same and it works.

Posted on Mon, Apr 27 2015 12:54
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

Hm, maybe I didn't set it up correctly.

What I tried to do was to set one expression map group with articulations for switching between the VSL presets
and then another group with articulations for switching between the x-axis samples in corresponding preset.

However, I never got it to work as I wanted.

For example: When I set articulation 2 in group one (to change the vsl preset) and articulation 3 in group two (to choose sample in that preset) for a given note.   Only one of the articulations accually changed..  (the x-axis one.)

I might have missed something... :-(

/Erik

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Tue, Apr 28 2015 06:36
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 316

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to achieve. But, I believe that you have more than one matrix loaded in the Vienna Instruments player, and than every matrix contains a horizontal row of cells loaded with articulations, right? For example:

Piccolo
Flute
Piccolo + Flute in Octaves

And each of these contains a row of articulations like staccato, legato etc.

And if I understand this correctly, you're trying to make Cubase set different matrices to different articulations simultaneously. For example, set the piccolo in the first matrix to staccato and set the flute in the second matrix to sforzato at the same time. Is that correct?

Posted on Tue, Apr 28 2015 09:17
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

Hi,

I tried to do exactly as you described but I never tried to trigger multiple matrises at the same time.

But even so, the result was that the VSL instrument only seemed to get one of the kewswitches.

In other words, It worked to trigger the keyswitch for the matrix change and it worked to trigger the keyswitch the x-axis position in the current matrix
but I could nerver get both of those keyswithces to work at the same time.

/E

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Tue, Apr 28 2015 17:10
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 316

It definitely works to switch the matrix and switch to a certain cell within the matrix at the same time.

A simple example:

Here I've loaded three matrices - Piccolo, Flute and Piccolo/Flute in Octaves. The keyswitches for the matrices are G1, G#1 and A. In the matrix, there are four cells - staccato, sustain, sforzato and legato, aligned along the X-axis. The keyswitches for the X-axis are C1, C#1, D1 and D#1.

UserPostedImage

So, in order to have the expression map switch to the legato patch of the piccolo matrix, I would have to trigger the keyswitches G1 and D#1 simultaneously. That is no problem: you only have to highlight the legato articulation in the expression map editor and choose two "note-on" controllers for the articulation: one set to G0, the other one to D#0. (Note that the middle Cs in Cubase and in Vienna Instruments are by default defined differently, so the keyswitches in the expression map always have to be one octave lower).

UserPostedImage

When you choose "legato" in the articulation lane of the Cubase MIDI editor, the expression map automatically sets the keyswitches to G and D#. It definitely works without problems. Perhaps you have been making some mistake in the setup?

What doesn't work is to switch to one cell in matrix 1, and switch to another cell in matrix 2 simultaneously. That cannot work because in the Vienna Instruments sampler, there is always just one matrix "active" at the time.

But in the end, all of this doesn't really help us with using expression maps while playing live, as Cubase unfortunately disables manual activation of keyswitches as soon as an expression map is loaded that uses these keyswitches. If I unload the expression map and press the G and D# keys on my keyboard, Vienna Instruments switches to the right matrix and cell. But when I load the expression map, I can't trigger them on the keyboard any more. I don't know why they have to have it like this, as it's obviously nonsensical.

Posted on Wed, Apr 29 2015 03:06
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2612

It's funny idea to have on the same track Flute and Picolo ;)

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Wed, Apr 29 2015 06:19
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 316

Originally Posted by: Cyril Go to Quoted Post

It's funny idea to have on the same track Flute and Picolo ;)

Usually all my instruments have their own instance of VI Pro and their own MIDI tracks. This flute/piccolo thing is just something I loaded from the VI presets, they have it set up that way for some reason. Maybe it's from the perspective of the flute player in the ensemble who is designated to switch to Piccolo when the score calls for it.

Posted on Wed, Apr 29 2015 08:28
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

I belive the reason for why it didn't work for me was because I set it up differently.

In the expression map, I had 10 articulations in group1, each one sending only one keyswitch (to choose matrix)

Then I had 10 articulations set in group 2, each one sending only one keyswitch (to choose variations in the x-axis for the choosen matrix)

I did it this way to be able to squeeze in allmost all articulations for the solo-violin in one expression map without ending up with a very long list.

Even if it works the way you describe, I think I'll stay with plain key-switching for now. :-)

/E

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
Posted on Wed, May 27 2015 21:36
by cartercallison
Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2011, Posts 3

Really interesting post guys. Let me try to understand something: I am thinking of switching to Cubase from Logic 9 especially for VST expression maps (among other reasons).  I have the Symphonic Cube and just read that I will not be able to use all of my articulations for each instrument because the Preset VST Expression maps from VSL don't have them all.  I just assumed I could use keyswitches for the remainder of the articulations but per the previous posts I guess I assumed wrong.  Is it possible to make a custom VST Expression map with a lot more articulations? Is there a limit to how many you can use in one map or do some vsl samples just not work with the maps?  Could you theoretically have a map with all the samples for a given instrument?

Posted on Thu, May 28 2015 01:22
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, San Antonio, TX, Posts 309

You can do anything you want to do. There is an almost unlimited combination of switches available when you take into consideration you can switch between multiple matrices. The only real limitation is Cubase's Expression Map display, which can become somewhat unwieldy with long lists. But even then, as some have suggested elsewhere, if you make all your Expressions attributes (and none of them directions) you can always select mapped Expressions using the Info Bar at the top of the Key Editor in Cubase.

Perhaps what you read is that the Presets may not have everything you want set up in advance. That only means that you will have to create your own VI Presets and Cubase Expression Maps for anything more than the existing Expression Maps and Presets cover.

VSL Std Edition Core WW, Brass, Percussion
VSL Spec Editions Complete
VE Pro, VI Pro, MIR Pro
Windows 10
Cubase, Dorico
Posted on Thu, May 28 2015 10:38
by exister
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2015, Sweden, Posts 29

Good input DaddyO.

I'll try the Info Bar aproach...

Regards,

Erik

Erik Nordin

Struggling to become a composer (not a jedi yet..)

Master: Imac 27 5k 16m ram, Roland A-88 keyboard, RME Fireface UC, Mac OS OS X 10.10, Cubase 8,5 PRO

Slave: PC Intel i7 7700K 4,2Ghz, 64MB DDR4, ASUS PRIME Z270-K LGA1151 Moterboard, 2GB SSD
Instruments PRO, Ensemble PRO, MIR PRO, VSL SE +, App Solo Violin +, App Strings +, Ivory Pianos
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.