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How to set manual sound sets in Sibelius with Ensemble Event Input
Last post Tue, Mar 24 2015 by Ege, 12 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Mar 19 2015 12:39
by greger.hatt
Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2005, Posts 7

 

Hi, 

Thanks for great guides, videos and especially the "optimizing VSL for Sibelius"-pdf. 

I am probably inept, but even after having read them several times and watched the videos, I still don't get the Event input to work 

This is how it doesn't work: 

1. Having set up the instance, assembled my instruments on the MIR stage, opened Sibelius, activated the Vienna Ensemble PRO VST with strings library I

2. Click "show" to connect to the instance. 

3. In the manual sound set "Apply" my string section to channels 1-5.

4. Save

5. Activate Vienna Ensemble Event Input, click show and assign channel 2

6. Set manual sound sets in the Vienna Ensemble Input for Woodwinds in channels 1-5 (flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, Horn).

When I save again the first (Vienna Ensemble Pro VST) automatically changes its soundsets to the woodwinds instead. 

I have tried to set up manual sound set of instruments in a separate Vienna Ensemble Event Input but then there is no sound. 

So my questions are:

Once having activated the
1. Vienna Ensemble PRO VST
2. Vienna Event Input on channel 2
How do I make the different soundset work together and where do I activate the instruments? 

Sorry if I missed some print in the manuals. 

Best regards

 

Greger

PS sound libraries from Symphonic cube

Posted on Thu, Mar 19 2015 13:01
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3125

Hello Greger!

I'm sorry to say that I can't follow all the steps you have described.
Steps 1 to 4 are ok.
Step 5. Where did you assign channel 2? In the VEP Event Input window, please assign MIDI Input 2. Maybe that's what you ment.

I am confused about the automatic sound set change you have described. I have never experienced or heard about such a problem. Please make sure that you assign the programs for strings and woodwinds to the different devices (VEP and VEP Event Input). You can switch between them in the Device line on the Manual Sound Sets page.

The instruments can be added with the button in the lower left of VE Pro. In your case set the MIDI Port of the Strings to 1 and the MIDI port of the woodwinds to 2.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Mar 21 2015 17:33
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

I am having the exact same problem. 

 

My system is OSX 10.10.2, VE Pro 5.4.13682 (latest version), Sibelius 7.5.1.

 

What is DOUBLY frustrating is that OLDER Sibelius compositions, of a month or so ago, work fine with instruments assigned to Event Input Ports (I have three working successfully at the same time, plus the original VE Pro instance on Port 1).

 

What happens is that when I try to set up manual set up in Sibelius for an Event Input instances (after the first instance has been set up for another instrument group, for example, all winds in VE Pro), I hit "Assign" and then Test for the instrument assigned to Event Input-- no sound.  That particular instrument has already been loaded in VE Pro and assigned to the Port for the Event Input and the correct MIDI channel for that Port.  Looking at the VE Pro mixer, it shows a signal going to the desired VI Pro instrument ( a thin green line each time Test is struck), and looking at the VI Pro player interface (with the keyboard and the various controls) for the instrument in question, it shows a signal coming in, a key being pressed and a signal going out, but no sound. So at least the signal is getting to the right instrument and the VI Pro player is sending a signal back.

 

I have checked the Sibelius Mixer over and over again, and it shows that the silent instrument is properly assigned to correct VE Pro Event Input Instance and the proper channel.

 

I had though the problem might have something to do with the two most recent updates to VE Pro, but OLDER Sibelius/VE Pro combinations involving Event Input work.

 

I'm stumped.

 

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Sat, Mar 21 2015 19:13
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

I tried Plan B:

 

I set up individual VE Pro instances, instead of using one VE Pro instance and additional Event Input instances. 

 

This appeared to work.  However . . .   when I tried to an an additional instrument to one of the individual VE Pro's, I had the same problem again, no sound.  I switched that same instrument's samples to another channel that was outputting sound and heard that instrument.  So it isn't the samples.

 

I tried increasing MIDI ports in VE Pro preferences (as I understand it, at present I am only using three, one for each of my VE Pro instances), and increasing Audio outputs. With no apparent effect.

 

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Sun, Mar 22 2015 10:35
by greger.hatt
Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2005, Posts 7

Hi Steve, 

Not sure we have the same problem, but I learnt a few things from making my mistakes (and spending a few hours lookingin the wrong direction):

- when I had no sound, and read through the VEPRO manual again over and over, it turned out I had not changed the audio engine optinos in Sibelius at the bottom of the playback menu

- what solved my earlier issue was discovering that in Sibelius playback setup, under Manual Sound Sets, there was the trick meny of "Device". So I had to choose the right instruments for the right instance. Before I hadn't noticed that choiced and simply tried to set up instruments, believing Sibelius had the device connected to the soundset. 

- A lot was solve by simply double checking I had the right Midi channels... (*blushing a bit*).

So now it works great. Now, I just have to learn Sibelius...

Take care

 

Greger 

Posted on Sun, Mar 22 2015 13:14
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

Greger

 

Thanks for your suggestions, and I agree with everything you said.

 

There is a very long chain that has to be set up for Sibelius and VE Pro to work together.  I'd like to go through it just to be sure we both agree on the procedure.  The first step involves the selection of the correct staff for each instrument in Sibelius.   Most times the choice is obvious, but not always -- this is discussed in the Optimizing Sibelius help document from VSL.  Each staff has one, and only one, MIDI channel and port, so, in effect, you use a staff to assign a channel. 

 

The second step involves the rather hard to find (at first) "Playback Devices" dialogue, which you get to in Sibelius through Play-Setup in the Sibelius Menu through the small drop down icon.  In Active Devices you find, in the left panel, Vienna Ensemble Pro - in my case, since I use OSX, I use the .AU version.  You activate that and choose, in the right hand panel, Sound Set by double clicking on the text.  If you have different instrument groups, such as strings and brass, for example, you must set up an ADDITIONAL Active Devices, since each will require its own Soundset designed for the instrument group.  Until just now (when I have the problem that led to my post) I have been able to use "Vienna Ensemble Pro Event Input" as a second (or third, etc., depending on the instrument groups) Active Device and choose a Sound Set for it.

 

At this point you click on the Manual Sound Sets tab in Playback Devices, choose a Device (from those you have just set up) and click Show.  If you are just setting up a score the VE Pro Server Interface, a square box, will appear indicating in red that it is not connected.  You connect it to one of the IP addresses shown in the window -- now Sibelius is communicating with the server, the interface will change on the Server, and now click the "Raise" button, and the VE Pro mixer will appear.  Continuing down the Playback Devices dialogue, confirm you have the correct soundset for the instruments you are about to add, click "Use manual sound set", select a number of channels for the instruments the number of instruments in the family to which the sound set belongs, and then at the right begin to add instruments.  The Optimizing Sibelius manual from VSL contains guidance on which instruments to select -- again, it is not always obvious which instrument to choose.  

 

If you try to test the instrument you have just added to the Dialogue you won't hear anything, because you must add the instrument to the VE Pro mixer.  The procedure for doing so is set out in the VE Pro Manual, it is fairly easy, and by using either Shift or Alt when you enter the Port and channel for each instance of VI Pro in the mixer, you can save youself alot of work in assigning these numbers.  In VE Pro you must then use the SIBELIUS Presets, at the right of the VI Pro player window, to load you instrument sample matrices.

 

If you now return to the Sibelius Playback Devices dialogues, when you press TEST for a given instrument, you should hear the instrument.  Going back to the VI Pro window within the VE Pro mixer, you should also be able to play the keyboard and hear sounds.  As I stated, in my case, I cannot hear any sounds when I Test instruments loaded into an Event Input device (but I can for a VE Pro activated instance), and the VI Pro keyboard window shows sounds being sent, but I cannot hear any.

 

The last step is to open the Mixer in Sibelius, expand the Mixer window to its full height to show all controls, and then press the ridiculously small green lettered windows at the top to find "(Auto)".  If the Gods are smiling on you, all your instruments at once will be assigned a proper channel and you are done!  You only have to press "(Auto)" once.

 

I have been using this system for some time by now with pretty good success.  It is usually the Mixer in Sibelius that gets things wrong sometimes when I have used Event Input instances and I have to manually select the proper Activated Device (Port) and channel.  It usually takes some fiddling and more (Auto) presses to get it right.  BTW, you can see what Activated device is selected for a given instrument by putting your mouse over the green lettering at the top of the mixer and holding (but not clicking) it there briefly, and the assigned port (Activated Device) will appear.  As you mentioned, you must be sure that your port and channel assignments in the VE Pro mixer correspond to those in Sibelius Mixer.

 

I think just about all that I have written above is contained in the Sibelius Reference Manual, the VE Pro Manual, and the Optimizing Sibelius Manual, the latter two from VSL. 

 

The frustration that comes is when you do all this methodically, and it does take some time to set up, and you still can't hear anything -- at least from Event Input instruments.  I did have my Audio Engine Options set correctly, but you are right point out that the assignment in the "Augio Enging Options" dialogue must be correct.  I was able to hear the VE Pro instances because of this -- with the SAME setting Event Input was silent.  I've got a problem in a chain of data somewhere, or perhaps, the Sibelius-VE Pro linkage gets confused somehow once a VE Pro instance is set up and you attempt to add an Event Input, or even another instrument to an exiting VE Pro instance.

 

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Sun, Mar 22 2015 14:05
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3125

Hello Steve!

If the instruments you trigger via the VE Pro Event Input create audio signals, but you don't hear them, I would check the further signal flow in the VEP mixer. Do the instruments get routed to the Master Bus? Does the Master Bus get routed to Out1/Out2?

By the way. Assigning (Auto) in the Sibelius mixer is not necessary normally, because it is the default setting anyway. This step is only necessary, if you have selected another output or MIDI channel earlier. So here you can save some time.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Mar 22 2015 15:05
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

Originally Posted by: andi Go to Quoted Post

Hello Steve!

If the instruments you trigger via the VE Pro Event Input create audio signals, but you don't hear them, I would check the further signal flow in the VEP mixer. Do the instruments get routed to the Master Bus? Does the Master Bus get routed to Out1/Out2?

Hi Andi!

Yes to both questions; routed correctly.

I have done some further experimenting, and it does seem that BEFORE STARTING to add instruments to the SIBELIUS Manual Soundsets Dialogue, you should FIRST set up the instruments in VE Pro with the correct Port and Channel settings.  This means that the FIRST thing one must do when entering Manual Set up is press "Show" to bring up the VE Pro Server and connect it, then RAISE the mixer, then ADD the instruments with correct port and channel.  AFTER THAT, THEN proceed to add instruments to the Manual Playback Devices dialogue, "Apply", and the "Test."  (I forgot to mention in the earlier post that one must at the VERY first, IMPORT the House Style for VSL!  Also, I am using MIR Pro, but I checked the output section for the silent instrument and there's nothing I can see which would prevent sound from coming through.)

I thought I had solved the problem, BUT . . .  First, I don't remember that the SEQUENCE of setups was that critical, as this workaround seems to suggest.  Worse, the procedure didn't work consistently.  For example, I first added a VE Pro instance and populated it with the instruments I wanted, then added them to Sibelius and it worked fine.  However, thereafter, I added an Event Input, and, again, signal sent to the port, but no sound.   In an earlier test, however, following the sequence suggested above, I set up VE Pro and two Event Input instances, putting just ONE instrument in each of the VE Pro and Event Input instances.  I assign the first Event Input instance to port 2, and the second to port 3.  This worked --- each instrument played.

 

So I can't figure what I am doing wrong.  Perhaps corrupted Sound Sets?

 

Good morning.

 

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2015 07:22
by greger.hatt
Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2005, Posts 7

Hi Steve, 

And good morning (now in Sweden). You have probably tried everything, but one thing that worked for me in a similar situation - with every routing done correctly - was restarting Sibelius after Sibelius presets were loaded in VEPRO. That also worked if I for example wanted to change instruments (say from chamber to orchestral, or to hear woodwinds play a Mozart string quartet just for the joy of it). 

THankyou for the thorough walk through of the process!! I didn't know I was supposed to use AU rather than VST in a Mac. 

Best wishes

Greger

Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2015 09:23
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3125

Hello Steve!

It really doesn't make a difference, if you add the instruments in VE (Pro) first or assign programs on the Manual Sound Sets first. Also the time when you import the House Style doesn't make a difference. You may need some of the instrument definitions of the "Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style when you add instruments in Sibelius though.

If you want to, you can send your Sibelius file and Playback Configuration to and I will take a look at it.

Greger, on Mac you can use VST or AU. It doesn't make much difference.

Best,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2015 10:41
by greger.hatt
Joined on Thu, Jun 16 2005, Posts 7

Thanks Andi,

VSL has unparallelled quality and swiftness in support and tutorials in any sector. 

Best 

Greger

Posted on Tue, Mar 24 2015 15:51
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

Greger

 

I agree.

 

I have solved my issue, under which only the first few instruments (nine in my case) would produce sound, although VE Pro and Event Input were showing signals going through from the Sibelius staff.  Since I was working on a new composition, I had not bothered to set up MIR in VE Pro -- I hadn't chosen a venue or placed the instruments on the stage, figuring I would get to that later.  Once I opened a venue and did the placement, all the instruments sounded correctly!  I double checked with each staff on the Sibelius score and on the individual VI Pro keyboards for each instrument.  All is well.

 

So I guess the morale is:  once you use MIR, be sure to select your venue and complete the instrument placement, because if you don't not all of your instruments deliver audio for you.

 

This is the first time I have run across this issue, and VSL tech support did offer to look into my problem with their usual promptness.

 

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
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