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Binaural (Kunstkopf) Microphones missing
Last post Mon, Nov 27 2017 by Dietz, 11 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 14:00
by badibeat
Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2009, Posts 17

What I most miss in MIR Pro is the ability to place a Binaural microphone, E.G. a Neumann Kunstkopf KU 100 for audiences and in keeping with current development maybe a way to import personalized HRTFs from AES69 files.

I was actually wondering right when I got the first version of MIR that something like this is not included out of the box. To me it seems to fit naturaly with the concept of MIR. I'd gladly invest the amount you pay for two packs to just get these features.

Benefits as I see them:

- Most realistic Monitoring of the sound at a given position using earphones.

- With the KU 100 you get good results for a Binaural Mix for a large audience including front of head localisation.

- With personalized HRTFs (Head Related Transfer Functions) you could stick your very specific virtual head into the stage.

A more complex but also more futureproof path there would be to include Higher Order Ambisonic Microphones. 

badibeat

Tags: Binaural
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 14:59
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Hi Badibeat,

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions! From a technical point-of-view I absolutely understand what you're asking for. :-) Actually I would _love_ to expand MIR into the realm of 3D-audio, especially considering the fact that "Ambisonics" etc. wasn't on many people's radar when VSL started to develop the undelying techniques more than 15 years ago. *sigh*

But please keep in mind that the majority of MIR-users aren't tech-savvy at all, and reading the mails that reach VSL support I assume that most of them would vote for "more presets" rather than "more possibilites" ...

That said, I think it's safe to say that MIR will see some big enhancements in the not-too-distant future, given the fact that its engine uses Ambisonics throughout the whole signal path anyway.

Still I don't expect "Kunstkopf" or other quite specialised formats to be high on the list of the development team, to be honest. What _will_ make sense is the option to give the user access the undecoded output stream, allowing for any kind of further processing in the Ambisonics domain. Just don't hold your breath, please, as it will take some time until these new features will see the day of light ... 

Thanks again for your input, and kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 17:17
by badibeat
Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2009, Posts 17

Hi Dietz

Thank you very much for your resoponse. I recognized MIR's potetial immediately and hope there's more than new venues to come, as you suggested.

Accessing the ambisonic domain would actually be the most universal solution. I am also waiting for a Nuendo update that is finally able to handle Higer Order Ambisonic tracks. 

I have the impression that the gaming industry still has the lead in this field, and from my experiences a lot of VSL products are used to produce game soundtracks.

I think the majority of people just never experienced true binaural recordings. In comparison rigging up stuff like xx+y speakers is just a compromise. Many people nowadays listen a lot through earphones, to stuff which was sadly produced for speakers.

By the way, it's perfectly viable to use headphones together with a subwoofer to experience the full physical impact of sound ;)

Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 17:39
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Originally Posted by: badibeat Go to Quoted Post
[...] I have the impression that the gaming industry still has the lead in this field, and from my experiences a lot of VSL products are used to produce game soundtracks. [...]

... I will quote you as often as possible!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 19:10
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

Here's another user that would be very interested in that feature. I suppose that it would not be very difficult to implement a binaural conversion inside MIR, after the ambisonics processing that is already implemented as the hearth of the software, you will need just a decoder into the binaural format, where now is only possible to get stereo/dolby, right?
I can imagine it would require some resources, but I think that could put MIR on a whole new prospective.
Personally I could not think to a better software to finally blend together two aspects of my work, that at the moment I have to keep separated in 2 different workflows: composinga with virtual instruments and working with "spatial music".

Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 20:55
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Thanks for adding your voice, Fabio.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 20:56
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
[...] now is only possible to get stereo/dolby, right? [...] 

... errr ... Dolby?

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 22:19
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 536
... errr ... Dolby? ... ;D


Regarding to Dolby Atmos ... Dolby themselfs will bring a highly interesting PlugIn Package for musicians. But release is about six month from now ...

It is made for Clubmusic but could be interesting for all kind of Music. Think about jumping Violin-Players :D (Dietz' MIR-Nightmare since he always said that "moving" MIR Icons on stage are no topic)


Here's an article in German language
https://www.heise.de/new...r-Musik-DJs-3889200.html

And here a Video ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1Agf_TRms
Shiba rules ! The BTC is my friend :)

To the Moon !! 🚀🌙
Posted on Mon, Nov 27 2017 00:46
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
[...] now is only possible to get stereo/dolby, right? [...] 

... errr ... Dolby?

 

wooops! Surround! :S

Posted on Mon, Nov 27 2017 09:29
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
[....] (Dietz' MIR-Nightmare since he always said that "moving" MIR Icons on stage are no topic)[...]

Well - to keep things in perspective: Of course it would be great to have the option for seamlessly moving Icons on a MIR Pro Venue, without interrupting the audio signal derived from them. What I tried to point out in previous answers to this question is that - looking on the underlying engine components - this is quite hard to achieve.

Given the fact that MIR has been developed with virtual orchestration in mind, it's quite obvious that we decided not to overcomplicate things any further, because there's little use for this feature in the targeted scenario.

... but never say never! :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Nov 27 2017 09:30
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7742

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
[...] now is only possible to get stereo/dolby, right? [...] 

... errr ... Dolby?

 

wooops! Surround! :S

Ah! That makes sense. :-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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