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Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 00:06
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding?  I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since.  I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts:   what music do you actually do?  I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk.  I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering. 

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com 

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 00:22
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 550

Hi William,

I went to the "No greater Love" link and had a listen. A very lovely and nice piece of music. Sounds very expressive.

thanks for sharing

 

Steve

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 01:39
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

Hi Steve

Thanks, nice to hear from you!  I am really excited by the sound of the Synchron strings.  Each VSL library has a different sound, for different expressions.  This one is the most complex and probably along with Appassionata out of the box the most perfect.  Though Synchron beats even Appassionata because THERE IS NO MIXING!  

I did nothing but play the tracks in MIDI on this.  That is incredible.  Of course I could tweak it if desired but that is what is amazing about the library.  Just load and play.  On this piece there is only one articulation for each instrument.  Though of course it is a simple piece.  But espressivo legato is what I first try to judge about a library's sound and the Synchron is so beautiful and characteristic of each instrument. 

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 01:50
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 550

Hi William,

no problem - I listened to the music, and then the YouTube video followed with some more lovely work from you.

I'm glad you are enjoying the library. Yes, the VSL Libraries are all different.  I really did enjoy watching Paul in his videos showing the very soft articulations.

Have you also heard what Beat Kauffman has done with the short articulations from Synchron with the new partita version? He has achieved a very energetic sound - very realistic - I do love the shorts of this library. Amazing sound. It's great that there is energy in the short samples.

 All the best with creating music with this library. You've done very well with what I've heard in the YouTube video. I wish I could get my demo's to sound as good as that!

best,

 

Steve

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 02:34
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

Thanks Steve, I agree Beat's demo is great. Also I am eagerly auditioning those new variants like the soft articulations.  It is interesting how you can use the soft attack legato for example with a higher velocity than the normal legato to create an espressivo attack and then resume the lower velocity legato.  I did that on a number of the lines in this piece.  There are lots of variations in the new sounds that are very exciting to try out.  

Best,

William

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 03:06
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 550

Hi again William,

Glad you liked Beat's demo. I thought the sound was amazing that Beat achieved with this. I have to hand it to Beat, he really knows how to use articulations so well. I thought he really showed what you can do with the shorts in his demo. Amazing sound!

 

Also, as you mentioned about the different legato attacks -having that as a variation of the legato gives more choice of the attack of the notes. I'm sure that we'll be able also to hear this when Paul does his video on legato.

Steve

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 03:56
by sururick
Joined on Mon, Aug 18 2008, Posts 32

Hi William,

Absolutely beautifu! I loved your No Greater Love piece. The strings indeed do sound top notch quality and expressive... Now, I have to decide what I'm gonna get... Upgrade to full Apassionata Strings library or get the Synchron Strings. Now, I really have to think!

Regards,
Richard

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 07:24
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 334

Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure what you are suggesting VSL give up to allow you to run all articulations and mics. 

Nothing. As I said, my main problem isn't that the library is ressource demanding. It just becomes the problem when the library ends up being capable of less than libraries that are half, or quarter the size (either because articulations aren't there, or don't work properly). Then the excessive requirements add to the absurdity of the situation. That's the point that I was trying to make.

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 17:18
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

Thanks Richard!  I read your post about Appassionata and agreed on them being such a good overall string sound.  Definitely having the entire library is important.  All the different strings of VSL have their various strengths - for example Orchestral Strings have the most varied articulations, Chamber a more intimate sound, Dimension amazing individually controllable textures, Solo strings the best solo timbres,  and now Synchron with instant playability and imaging in a great recording venue.  So it is indeed difficult to choose.  I have been using them all in different compositions depending on the mood of the piece. 

For example I am working on a film score that is a small-scale psychological drama inspired by the Val Lewton RKO low budget mystery horror films of the 40s.  On that I decided to use Dimension with no doublings with some solo strings because it is a sound more like that intimate group of players, rather than a huge epic sound like Appassionata. 

Though on a recording for a production library that was supposed to be "epic" the Appassionata were essential. The variety of the VSL strings has become a great asset and is certainly the result of the nearly infinite expressiveness of the strings.

Posted on Mon, Jan 01 2018 20:26
by sururick
Joined on Mon, Aug 18 2008, Posts 32

Hi William,

That is exactly why I do love the Appassionata strings, the big lush shound. I'm just wondering if it is possible if you could create a short dmeonstration of the dynmaic patches in the Appassionata Strings so that I can hear what they sound like. They never did show those in the videos. I have an idea what they may sound like because I have a few libraries that have them, but it would still be nice hear what they sound like.

Regards,
Richard

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 02:31
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

I can't do a demo for Appassionata right now but I would say that the cres/dim dynamics are not needed absolutely, because you can use crossfade.  However - I find that the sforzando is essential.  That is something that crossfade just doesn't do well enough. 

Also, I don't know what is in Special Edition as I only have the Full library, but I wonder if it has all the legato variations - perf legato slur, perf legato 4 velocity, pef leg progressive, perf-leg Vib stong, perf-leg Sfz, perf-leg tune, perf-leg tune-li, perf-leg sul G, perf leg portamento.

Those are a really great variety of important articulations to have.  Especailly the 4 velocity and sforzando. 

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 17:31
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 167

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  No Greater LoveWilliam Kersten


Sorry William but I don't understand anything in your piece... Violins are all playing one 16th late after the beat, I guess it requires some serious editing imo. Forget about the quantize button.

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 17:42
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 270

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding?  I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since.  I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts:   what music do you actually do?  I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk.  I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering. 

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com 

Dear William,

I totally agree with your point about supporting opinions with samples and real music, but this is exactly why I write now that your sample, even if it's a nice and well produced composition, it's not supporting at all your statement in my very humble opinion (not more realistic or more expressive than other professional libraries demos at all, I'm afraid). I don't think it's requested sarcasm or offensive "muppets" joke to argue on very detailed and serious observations adn criticism, that unfortunately for me, with the very same experience you had with libraries (started long long long time ago...) I totally quote.

Personally I was very disappointed as well, and personally again I really hope VSL will refine the product: it's pretty obvious listening to strange noises and loop little issues some notes have, that editing was long, hard and under pressure, and it sounds really like a "beta release".  I really loved the project concept, in the hope that VSL outstanding software and sonic experience will provide us with something great: I consider VSL software simply the top of the market, almost undisputable, then I've great expectation for the new player.

Anyway the actual release can't be claimed better than professional competition in my opinion, as several other people are thinking: it's difficult all of us are wrong, despite personal taste, because technical details and faults are simply objective. For the rest let's wait the next steps in development: everybody recognized something good and useful already... crossing fingers final release will be worth of the effort and VSL quality expectations.

Good luck to VSL and to all of us already paying for it.

all the best and keep doing good music, Fabio.

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 18:39
by Eptesicus
Joined on Wed, Oct 16 2013, Posts 33

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding?  I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since.  I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts:   what music do you actually do?  I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk.  I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering. 

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com 

Dear William,

I totally agree with your point about supporting opinions with samples and real music, but this is exactly why I write now that your sample, even if it's a nice and well produced composition, it's not supporting at all your statement in my very humble opinion (not more realistic or more expressive than other professional libraries demos at all, I'm afraid). I don't think it's requested sarcasm or offensive "muppets" joke to argue on very detailed and serious observations adn criticism, that unfortunately for me, with the very same experience you had with libraries (started long long long time ago...) I totally quote.

Personally I was very disappointed as well, and personally again I really hope VSL will refine the product: it's pretty obvious listening to strange noises and loop little issues some notes have, that editing was long, hard and under pressure, and it sounds really like a "beta release".  I really loved the project concept, in the hope that VSL outstanding software and sonic experience will provide us with something great: I consider VSL software simply the top of the market, almost undisputable, then I've great expectation for the new player.

Anyway the actual release can't be claimed better than professional competition in my opinion, as several other people are thinking: it's difficult all of us are wrong, despite personal taste, because technical details and faults are simply objective. For the rest let's wait the next steps in development: everybody recognized something good and useful already... crossing fingers final release will be worth of the effort and VSL quality expectations.

Good luck to VSL and to all of us already paying for it.

all the best and keep doing good music, Fabio.


Well said. As it stands, the legato is not good enough. There is a lot to like about the library (the quiet velocities, the shorts etc) but unless they can fix the legato, it isnt going to be up there with the very best.

Personally, i think there is just too much attack on the note after the transition which is giving it that unnatural and midi like quality.

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 19:45
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5526

I did a second mix using normal attack violins -

No Greater Love

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 20:14
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 167

deleted... wrong remarks, Synchron takes time to explore ;-)

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 20:22
by Eptesicus
Joined on Wed, Oct 16 2013, Posts 33

Originally Posted by: javajam Go to Quoted Post

 


Following I don't understand the layering restriction to 5 of 8 when using velocity crossfade. As some said around here, the sound is moving, changing along the note. We can't do it with played velocity, we have to go to Xfades tools like the velocity one (I use filter too for brass i.e.). That's the only single way to have it sounding almost real and live.

 

Very good point that. THere is no way to get a lyrical line sounding realistic without velocty x fade so it is hugely dissapointing to lose a few layers when enabling it.

I can't really fathom why they woould need to do this either..

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 21:07
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples...

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 21:12
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 270

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

I did a second mix using normal attack violins -

No Greater Love

Hi William,

in my very personal taste the previous one was better: the intro was amazing and emotional, now it sounds to me a bit forced. But the part I really found and still find weak (and it's coming from the library, not from your music) is round 1:00 to 1:30, when the bass line (cellos and later Bass) is so static... being a conductor I would really shout to cellos "com'on... WTF sing this part!... put a bit of heart in the line..."

I suppose the only way of fixing it is quite a bit of editing, and a different patch for the long note (perhaps Xfade?).

Of course it's just my very personal and humble opinion, ciao F.

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 01:16
by sururick
Joined on Mon, Aug 18 2008, Posts 32

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

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