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MIR Pro on non-VSL Tracks - VST Insert? Apologies in Advance
Last post Thu, Feb 01 2018 by FabioA, 20 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 16:36
by hodshonf
Joined on Tue, Oct 04 2016, Posts 21

hi all,

i am slowly getting my main VSL libraries lined up.

absolutely incredible.

i'm sure this question has come up many time, but i want to be sure...

MIR Pro can be used as a typical VST Plugin Insert on ANY audio/midi/instrument channel within a DAW like Studio One Pro, yes?

With VEP 5 i could do this as well?

 

thanks.

Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 17:36
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

Yes, MIR Pro can be used on actually any kind of audio source.

Just be aware of the fact that in theses cases MIR "knows" considerably less about the incoming signal than it does in case of Vienna Instruments: Here, detailed "Instrument Profiles" allow for deep interaction between room and instrument. They supply:

  • Frequency-dependent Directivity Profiles
  • Natural Volume information
  • The Stereo Width inherent in the original recording
  • Instrument and / or ensemble size
  • Natural timbres and possible changes to them ("Character Presets")
  • Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production
  • ... and last but not least: All MIRx-Mode settings.

... none of these aspects are available for other audio sources, of course, but MIR offers the so-called "General Purpose Profiles" to allow for their straigh-forward integration nonetheless. Those "plain" profiles are the ones you should choose for all signals which aren't derived from Vienna Instruments, otherwise the results will be unpredictable (even quite strange, under certain circumstances. 8-) ....)

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 18:51
by leigh
Joined on Tue, Aug 20 2013, Posts 39

I've been very happy with MIR Pro on other audio sources. It takes some fiddling (like most things) but the results are excellent.

**Leigh

Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something is worth doing no matter how it turns out.— Vaclav Havel

iMac 3.4 GHz/i7, 32GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.14.6 Dorico Pro 3
VI Pro 2, VE Pro 6, MIR Pro, UVI Falcon, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer, Garritan, Izotope RX 6 Advanced, DigitalPerformer 10, Metric Halo ULN-8-3D, ULN-2-2D & 2882-3D interfaces
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 03:17
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

The MIR plugin works great. But I have some issues with the VEP 6 Audio Input Plugin -> VEP MIR.
Latency compensation does not work and I get a lot of clicking (it's even worse with the mixdown).

Tried all different variations of buffer-sizes and settings. Nothing helped.
For now I am using VEP MIR with VSL Instruments and MIR Pro Plugin with recorded audio.
Works fine and to get Dry/Wet seperatly I have a second plugin in the Fx-send bus (+ setting Dry-Wet ratio in MIR to 0% and 100%).

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 06:04
by msanioura
Joined on Wed, Aug 03 2016, Posts 23
Originally Posted by: bbelius Go to Quoted Post
The MIR plugin works great. But I have some issues with the VEP 6 Audio Input Plugin -> VEP MIR.Latency compensation does not work and I get a lot of clicking (it's even worse with the mixdown).
Tried all different variations of buffer-sizes and settings. Nothing helped..

Clicking.. can be CPU and/or DAW.what are yours?
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 13:47
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797
No, my Cpu can handle it(4th gen Desktop i5 @ 3.2 Ghz base clock), i have enougth Ram, too. I use Cubase, this shouldn't be the problem either.
Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 13:55
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

Have you tried to switch off "ASIO Guard" in Cubase's Preferences? 

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 14:38
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797
Yes, Asio Guard is switched off. I have this problem only when using the combination Audio Input Plugin + Mir in VE Pro.
( Cubase 9.5, VE6 pro, VI Pro, Mir pro, all latest version /updates; windows 10 creators and fall creators)
Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 15:01
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

I run into the same problem at low latencies and/or as soon as I use more than four or five instances.

"Audio Input" into VE Pro has always been some kind of experimental feature. Most DAWs are not ready to send audio to an external application from anything else than their actual outputs; abusing a plug-in like VE Pro's "Audio Input" for this task comes for a price ... please keep in mind that VE Pro has been primarily invented to act as a MIDI host that reacts to incoming MIDI data, not audio.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 16:23
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

My ASIO latancy is set to 2048 (the highest value my interface can handle). I used 4-5 instances of the plugin.

Maybe if we could return the the processed audio-signal from VE back to the plugins output, it would solve this issue?

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 16:32
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

No, this would actually make the issue worse. If this would have been easier, VSL's software engineers would have opted for this straight-forward situation from the very beginning ...

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jan 26 2018 16:36
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

PS: This is the reason why the - actually stripped-down - plug-in version of MIR Pro has been invented at all. In this case, the hosting DAW is still processing the audio like with any other plug-in; it's "just" the GUI that runs in an independent process. No CPU-timing-critical stuff to compute here.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 27 2018 09:12
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

Ah! Ok, this explains a lot. Thank you for these information.

Dietz, one more question about MIR: does MIR add propagation delay (de: Laufzeitverzögerung) to the instruments / sound?
If yes, is there a switch to turn it on/off?

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 27 2018 09:20
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

Good question! :-)

Back then, we were very proud to offer perfect alignment between Main Mic and the direct signal from virtual spot mic (i.e. MIR's "dry" signal component). As a matter of fact, we carefully cut any remnant of the recorded direct signal from all IRs and replace it in real-time with the readily positioned dry signal, to avoid any hint of phasing and/or timing issues. So there's nothing you could compensate. :-)

That said, I know very well that sometimes the delay between spot mic and main mic adds to the sense of perceived depth and enveloping. You can achieve this (in VE Pro only!) by splitting the wet from the dry MIR signal and adding some milliseconds of delay to the former.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 27 2018 09:32
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

Yet another PS:

You might have seen the "Delay" parameter in MIR Pro's Output Format editor (which controls the Ambisonic decoder and contains the output matrix). Here you can add delay to individual virtual microphone capsules, but of course this will affect _all_ decoded signals then, so that's not what you were asking for.

... the main idea of this feature was to fine-tune the delay of microphones routed to surround channels.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 27 2018 17:28
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 797

Sounds interesting. I will experiment with some added delay.

Big thank you, Dietz!

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 27 2018 17:29
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

You're welcome! :-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jan 28 2018 23:30
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

  • Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production




Hi Dietz,

that means MIR takes into account sound radiation patterns according to the played techniques?

Thanks in advance!

Posted on Mon, Jan 29 2018 00:16
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7430

Yes, but only in form of a weighted average, not dynamically.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Feb 01 2018 11:12
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

Crazy, thanks :)

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