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Maniacal Music
Last post Tue, Feb 09 2021 by William, 17 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Dec 23 2020 19:42
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

This piece starts out quiet but gets insane.  I had it on here a long time ago but did this new mix for the score and parts that I finally finished printing.  It was played once by a live orchestra who seemed to have fun doing it, especially the chime player who was playing so loud he broke his mallet at the concert...

INVOCATION AND RITUAL    

Posted on Wed, Dec 23 2020 21:56
by agitato
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, Posts 399

Hi William,

I enjoyed listening to this piece very much. The harmonies and orchestration were quite intricate. The percussion was used in ways I haven't heard before. Overall there was not a dull moment. I do hear a touch of Goldsmith's influence.

This is a sophisticated composition that is well beyond the standards of today's Hollywood film scores.

I must admit though, that despite VSL being great I wish I could hear this performed by a top orchestra. It would sound absolutely fantastic. 

Also this left me wishing that Hollywood films employed composers like you and Guy Bacos rather than the repetitive crap thats out there. (sorry I've been pretty sore for a few days after listening to that HZ video I shared where they spent 2 hours talking about nothing of substance except samples this and that)

Best wishes for the Holidays and New Year!

Anand

Anand Kumar
Posted on Fri, Dec 25 2020 16:00
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1067

Thank you for this offering Bill, maniacal indeed... It's interesting that I also have a work titled thusly, for wind quartet.

Merry Christmas everybody, and all the best for the impending new year. Hopefully, COVID -and inspiration patches- free! (I know, I know I'm asking for too much. Given a choice, I'll suffer the spread of COVID over the patches).

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Sat, Dec 26 2020 02:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621
thanks Errikos. Agitato, thanks, it would be good to hear with a top orchestra.
I remember getting performances of my orchestral music when I was in college. And then, when I got out, BAM. The doors slammed shut.
So I am just working on chamber music which has a little bit of interest from people. And doing music for films which gives it a venue. And VSL allows a composer to create an often better-than-live orchestral performance.
Posted on Sat, Dec 26 2020 18:56
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1993

Originally Posted by: agitato Go to Quoted Post

 

Also this left me wishing that Hollywood films employed composers like you and Guy Bacos rather than the repetitive crap thats out there. 

Anand

 

Hi Anand,

The comment is well appreciated (not just for me) and this is brought up now and then. Why not talk about it now? My apology William for hi-jacking this thread temporarily. Scoring for films is a different type of art and dedication. One could be an excellent composer and not do well scoring films, and one could be an excellent film composer but not able to write a stand alone concert piece. Very rare are film composers who could do both well. Danny Elfman recently wrote a violin concerto, I haven't heard it yet and can't say anything about it. There is also the collaboration aspect, you are the servant of the director in a manner of speaking. Are you comfortable with that? If he gives you 5 min to redo a scene, will you be to handle that? If he wants a style of music for a scene you find denigrating, can you work with that? I personally happen to prefer stand alone concert music, and like to have full control of what I want. I wouldn't want to spend my life writing film music, despite the glamor side sometimes associated with it, and nothing wrong with that or any other aspects of the craft. On the other hand, there is a prestige associated with concert music along with the long tradition of concert music. Many of the great 20th century composers would refuse to write film music even when offered. Possibly they might of been bad at it too. Anyway, this could be a discussion that could go on and on, but just thought I'd put in my 2 cents. 

Posted on Sat, Dec 26 2020 22:45
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621
That's true about not having control in film music. Though I've done a number of pieces of concert music such as this one my main goal has been to combine filmmaking and music into a single form. VSL is a fantastic tool for that.
Posted on Mon, Dec 28 2020 03:39
by agitato
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, Posts 399

Hi Guy and William,

I totally appreciate that being a good classical composer doesn't necessarily imply that one would want to score for films. Actually just as I finished writing the post I though I should add parenthetically "if they wanted to score for films". 

My post was more of a lament that there are few good quality film composers today that make it to the the top grossing movies. I understand that film is an entirely different genre that is largely driven by directorial demands, but the quality of film music, and to William's point, the quality of films themselves, has deteriorated to such an unimaginable degree (Thanks in large part to HZ) that one could only dream of music like what you guys make adorning film music these days. The days of John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith and the likes seem to be getting over and all replaced by thump thump music as I like to call it, or as Errikos said somewhere, its all about ostinatos and taikos these days.

Best

Anand

Anand Kumar
Posted on Mon, Dec 28 2020 07:05
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1993

Yes, but film music will always follow the trend its time, so you can't be too critical on that. I'm sure Stravinsky or Rachmaninov didn't have much esteem  for the film composers during their lifetime. It's a completely different art form and Hans Zimmer is just following the trend of his time and I honestly don't think he has any pretense about it, and it doesn't take anything away from Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann which I admire as much as anybody else, but even if they were alive today, they surely would of had to adapt their styles to the current trend.

Anyway William, keep doing what you're doing,  you do it very well, it's great music, nothing to envy.

Posted on Tue, Dec 29 2020 02:16
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

I heard that Stravinsky was going to score a film but didn't get hired, and then after that said that film music was worthless "wallpaper."     

Anyway I would also like to hear Guy Bacos scores for major motion pictures.  It would attract me into the theater much more often.   

Posted on Tue, Dec 29 2020 09:10
by Fabio Biolcati
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2013, Posts 197

Extremely well crafted, Sir.
Inspired, balanced —form-wise, orchestration-wise, production-wise.
The kind of music I still wish to listen watching an on-par movie.
And enjoying listening without a movie coming with, too.

Fabio Biolcati
SE1 Bundle, SE2&3 Strings; Notion5; Tannoy Reveal 501a
Posted on Wed, Dec 30 2020 03:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

Thanks a lot Fabio.    

Posted on Fri, Jan 29 2021 17:19
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 239

Hello William,

your composition is beautiful as usual.

I like the mix, which I find very creative, also I haven't heard anything with a similar dynamic range in a long time.....which makes me wonder what I'm doing with my life ahahahahah.....

It's excellent., seriously.

Originally Posted by: Guy Bacos Go to Quoted Post

There is also the collaboration aspect, you are the servant of the director in a manner of speaking. Are you comfortable with that? If he gives you 5 min to redo a scene, will you be to handle that? If he wants a style of music for a scene you find denigrating, can you work with that?



yes the collaboration side of music for media can be a downside, in my little experience with games and ads I was very lucky but one can always bump into the client who doesn't really know how long it takes to make things or sometimes it's just communication issues (see the book "No Minor Chords")......

the best clients hire you because they like you and they trust you, and then give you freedom: it doesn't happen every day.

Also on the general matter of film/game music, I think the taiko/ostinato is slowly being replaced buy a new more minimal and "intimate" trend.....where "intimate" means 3 piano notes drowned in reverb..... I sense that we're gonna hear more and more of that....but it's okay and I don't blame HZ or anybody else, there's no blame in my opinion: in that context, the film is the medium and music is an element of it, the director has a view and the audience has a preference......

But anyway I agree that both William's and Guy's music would be very interesting and enjoyable to hear in the context of other media as well.

All the best

Francesco

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Sun, Feb 07 2021 17:06
by Jos Wylin
Joined on Mon, Dec 03 2012, Belgium, Posts 630

Hi William,

Very impressive, William. Such expressive music, well crafted and recorded. It has a very cinematic feel, although it's deeper and very colorfully orchestrated. It shows so much emotion and reflection. That is music which appeals and attracts. I can't imagine a music lover who doesn't want to hear this. And I can't think of an orchestra not willing to put this score on their desks. (Although that's another matter as we say, it takes some serious 'elbow work' to enter the inner circle of performed composers...)

Many congrats! Love the piece!!!

http://www.joswyl.be
compositions and sampling exercises
Posted on Sun, Feb 07 2021 20:53
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

Thanks very much Jos!  I have close-to given up on live orchestral performances, since getting them seem to involve mainly schmoozing in the right manner, which I've never known how to do.  the only performances I've had were either in bands/orchestras that I was playing in, or that were musicians who knew me.  

Posted on Sun, Feb 07 2021 20:55
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

Though it's true that a few chamber performances seem to be happening, mysteriously.  I have gradually learned over several decades that writing for three players makes it easier to get a performance than writing for sixty players.  

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 19:22
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 546
Late to the dance, as I missed seeing this one. Glad I got a chance to listen! Very impressive, William. Nothing to add but the usual, well constructed, well produced. Great job!
www.DavidCarovillano.com
"I'm a composer of music that will be celebrated after I'm gone.  In the meantime, I'll just enjoy it myself."
Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2021 15:14
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

Thanks very much Dave!  

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