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Back up Vienna Key
Last post Sun, Jan 17 2021 by lupine, 36 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 02:40
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

I have to say, I am pretty surprised that there has been no one from VI to join this discussion.  I didn't even get a reply from support to my email.  What's the big secret?  What am I missing? 

BTW, I ordered a new key yesterday.  I'm getting paranoid!

M

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 06:15
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Having been through this before, it's like I said earlier.

VSL allows this topic to run many pages, people become angry, and it sometimes gets ugly.

Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 16:00
by ralf
Joined on Sat, Feb 22 2003, Ennetach/Germany, Posts 57

It's pretty simple why VSL doesn't intervene. The subject is tricky. I'm sure that the company will handle each case individually. They mentioned once that if they'd replace lost dongles a lot of user would have suddenly lost their dongles Stick out tongue

A broken dongle is a different story. Because it's encryptet it cannot be insured if the dongle itself is broken or the software had some kind of malfunction. Who tells you that an inaccessible license is not programmed but an encryption error or something alike? Therefore please stop buying these dongles every two years! Steinberg earns money with a copy protection - that's insane Party!!!

If a dongle is corrupt then send it to VSL together with the registration number of a new dongle. A fee per license is reasonable for one, two maybe three licenses. Then it comes to an end. In my case this would cost me so much that I could invest the money for some legal counseling and get the same results.

My experience so far is that VSL does handle this matter with some reasonable judgement. Hope it stays that way.... And yes - well... I have some good legal insurance Cool

Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 16:43
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

Ralf,

I don't completely understand your explanation.  It seems to me that if you have a key underwarranty that not only will VSL replace it for free, you will not be charged by Sreinberg for each licnce on the key.  So, it seems like a VERY good idea to replace it every two years.  I would rather spend the 27 dollars to do that than hundreds of dollars to Steinberg for all the licences on my key!!!!!!!!!  So, if a key becomes "corrupted" as you say, but is still under the two year warranty, it sounds like far less ahssle and money to fix the problem.  If it becomes corrupt after the warranty expires, you are subject to the rules of sale set by VSL.  What am I missing?

Mike

ralf wrote:

It's pretty simple why VSL doesn't intervene. The subject is tricky. I'm sure that the company will handle each case individually. They mentioned once that if they'd replace lost dongles a lot of user would have suddenly lost their dongles Stick out tongue

A broken dongle is a different story. Because it's encryptet it cannot be insured if the dongle itself is broken or the software had some kind of malfunction. Who tells you that an inaccessible license is not programmed but an encryption error or something alike? Therefore please stop buying these dongles every two years! Steinberg earns money with a copy protection - that's insane Party!!!

If a dongle is corrupt then send it to VSL together with the registration number of a new dongle. A fee per license is reasonable for one, two maybe three licenses. Then it comes to an end. In my case this would cost me so much that I could invest the money for some legal counseling and get the same results.

My experience so far is that VSL does handle this matter with some reasonable judgement. Hope it stays that way.... And yes - well... I have some good legal insurance Cool

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 17:40
by ralf
Joined on Sat, Feb 22 2003, Ennetach/Germany, Posts 57

Mike,

That's exactly the point: you own the licenses (not the product) and the dongle.

You cannot prove that a dongle went corrupt or that a software error occured because of the encryption. As long as you have the dongle you act according to the legal terms. If it's lost or stolen - different story. Of course VSL doesn't have to transfer my licenses from one dongle to another but it has to be ensured that this is possible (which is according to the legal terms) One doesn't lose that option just because a hardware warranty expires. The right to transfer owned licenses remains. If for whatever reasons a user cannot do this anymore the legal terms are threatened. Normally a user has the duty to protect its own data (and therefore the right) but in this case that's not possible. Therefore VSL will have to act. A fee can be levy but there must be a so called "Verhältnismäßigkeitsprinzip" (german word, don't know the english vocabulary...sorry) Means a fee may cover the expenses but not much beyond. There's a conflict of rights with the legal terms, that is why VSL remains silent in this matter. Tricky story eh? Tongue Tied

The same goes with Steinberg of course. Does VSL demand these fees or Steinberg?

Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 10:58
by Stefan
Joined on Tue, Oct 10 2006, Posts 520

Dear All,

Please distinguish between a lost ViennaKey and a broken ViennaKey.
Here's a summary of how we handle the unfortunate case a ViennaKey is reported as lost or broken:

  • If a ViennaKey breaks within the warranty period (two years) without extraneous cause, the user gets a new ViennaKey and the new license free of charge. That's why we recommend to purchase a new key every two years. The two year warranty starts with the date of purchase of the ViennaKey, so please store your invoice at a safe place.
  • In case the warranty period has expired, or if the user damages a ViennaKey, he will of course have to pay for the new ViennaKey and a handling fee for the new licenses (EUR 20 per contained license). This fee is necessary as we ourselves also have to pay fees to eLicenser for every replacement license we issue.
  • In case of a lost license, we meet our users halfway in this situation by replacing the license for 50% of the full price in case they're not insured.
  • If a lot of licenses are on a broken or lost key, we'll find a solution on an individual basis with the user.

While we totally understand that both scenarios are a cause for concern, we do our best to help customers that find themselves in this unfortunate situation in every way we can, while at the same time protecting our (and your!) investment in our products. We HAVE to make sure that there are no possibilities for fraud when users report to have lost or damaged their key.

Many ideas have been discussed in previous threads, and we are considering all technically and legally possible improvements together with the provider of this protection system, eLicenser (owned by Steinberg). The description above explains our current position.

Please also understand that we cannot give any further information in our forum on how we handle lost or broken keys, since we don't want to provide instructions on how to best outwit our protection system.

Best,
Stefan

Stefan Steinbauer
Sales Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 12:26
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2683

Dear Stefan,

Thanks for your answer

I have bought my libraries by upgrades of upgrades, I dont know how many licences it is making, but it is a lot of serial numbers !

Normally I have all the winds and all brass, could it be possible to regroup all those licences to one for the winds and one for the brass ?

Best

Cyril

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 16:13
by Stefan
Joined on Tue, Oct 10 2006, Posts 520

Hello Cyril,

I see that you have almost all our Single Instruments, which as you probably know add up to "big" Vienna Instrument Collections if you have all of them.

In case your key breaks, I would simply give you replacement licenses for the big Vienna Instrument Collections instead of Single Instruments (where applicable), which would result in significantly less replacement licenses (and lower costs) for you. Smile

Best,

Stefan

Stefan Steinbauer
Sales Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 16:21
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1016

Is there data available as to how often a key fails?  I can't imagine it happens frequently.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 17:33
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

Stefan,

THANK YOU!  Your input has been very helpful and I really appreciate it!  I am sure others do as well.

Please send me info privately on "how to best outwit your protection system."    JUST KiDDING!!!!!!!!!!!  Big Smile

My new key is on the way and I don't mind renewing it every two years if it helps to protect my  investment.

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2012 18:34
by ralf
Joined on Sat, Feb 22 2003, Ennetach/Germany, Posts 57

Currently I have 25 licenses including 12 master licenses registered on one dongle wich works perfectly fine. I'd love to add some more licenses (that dimension stuff sounds almost too great) but adding more licenses will continue to make my sleep bad.

According to the provided informations I'd have to pay quite some money if some error occured with the dongle. Puh... Nevertheless I won't support this dongle system by buying such a souce of anger every two years. What if something goes wrong while a license transfer...

Best Regards!

(edit)

lol...I just looked at the packages. I only miss the dimension brass in oder to get the "one" license for winds complete. That i DO call a well planed marketing...! What happens if a new product is introduced within winds complete? Does this mean that you will find a lot of single licenses again? This topic has a strange but yet fascinating sense of humor.... Stick out tongue

Posted on Sat, Oct 27 2012 15:06
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1016

Is there a faster way to move licenses to a new Key then dragging them one at a time?

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Thu, Nov 22 2012 20:47
by sac.music_lover99
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2011, Posts 39

Hi Stefan,

This has been my BIGGEST fear since I started buying VSL licenses last year.  I've already bought quite a bit and at one time I thought I had lost my key, my heart nearly melted!  There have got to be other ways to secure your (and our) investment.  With my primary business being in the hi-tech software security space I know that security and usability always exist in a delicate balance.

The more security one desires in a given application the less easy to use it often becomes and the greater usability (ease of use) one requires, usually the less secure the application becomes.  I understand why the security is necessary - trust me, we all want VSL to stay in business for many years to come!!!  However, it is really hard on the end user.  There are encryption companies out there such as Voltage Security and others that have "unbreakable" encryption algorithms that could be used in creative ways to protect the company's investment.

The problem is that they do not have license management systems like Steinberg and iLok.  However, even with Steinberg, I'm sure there is a way to come up with a solution that can have the assets secured to a satisfactory level.  In my local music store I was talking with an iLok user who stated that iLok provides a service where the licenses are backed up in the cloud.  Here's an idea that is a win-win for everyone.  

Have Steinburg provide a license backup service.  They instantly get a steady new revenue stream from those users (such as myself) that would take advantage of such a valuable service, the users get peace of mind and VSL achieves the three-fold objective of protecting their R&D, protecting their users and ridding themselves of the headache of dealing with license issues.  Maybe there is a flat-fee of $50/$75/$100 year (fair) for the serviceor maybe the cost is tiered according to how many licenses you are backing up (greedy in my opinion).  Regardless of the approach it would be better than nothing or having to buy the licenses again for 50% of their value.  In the event one misplaces or loses their license key, the old licenses can be deactivated (in order to do this one could hard-code a "phone-home" period on the key with the server every 30 days as an example) and new activation codes could be generated based on what was backed up in the cloud.

Where there is a will there is a way and I hope that VSL will work with Steinberg to provide this service to their users in the very near future.  For the time being, those of us that will only settle for the best are locked into the difficult position of guarding the keys with our lives for fear of losing our investment.  At the moment, I am also looking into studio insurance as an additional way to protect my studio software and hardware.

Best regards,

Craig

Posted on Fri, Nov 23 2012 04:07
by emspace
Joined on Sat, Oct 03 2009, Posts 53

Here's something I've always wondered. I have my VSL licenses on the same eLicenser as Cubase. If my eLicenser one day stopped working (and it is still under warranty), who do I send the defective eLicenser to? If I send it to VSL, would they return it to me after replacing my VSL licenses so I could then send it to Steinberg to recover my Cubase license? Or do I just send it to Steinberg since they own eLicenser (and I image they have some kind of "admin" access to all licenses since they're the owner of the company)?

Posted on Sat, Jan 16 2021 22:58
by 158511
Joined on Tue, Jan 12 2021, Posts 1

This thread is quite dated, but I have only recently become a VSL customer so the consideration of the licenses has just arisen for me. The issue I see is the 'eLicenser' is a plastic enclosed USB stick of low quality - no better than the free ones vendors often hand out (oh I'll just say it, it's a piece of crap). Steinberg at the very least should take a close look at the current generation iLok. It is metal encased with no seam to become separated. It's theoretically possible it could fail, but much less prone to breakage. For the folks with thousands of dollars/euros/XXX investment this is a disservice. It is worsened by the reality you will treat loyal customers with doubt - oh your key broke? Did it really? That'll cost you.
For myself, I only have a couple Synchron pianos licensed. Based on the substance of this thread, though there are multiple VSL products of interest to me, I will not be buying them. Too much risk, and there are a wealth of competing products.
It is true to say this criticism could be equally directed at Steinberg, but VSL are a willing participant.

Posted on Sun, Jan 17 2021 11:44
by lupine
Joined on Sun, Feb 14 2016, Posts 49

All you have to do is buy the Vienna Protection Plan, which has been available for years now https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Product_Overview/Vienna_Protection_Plan

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