marcato and portato

[tele]

Found this definition of marcato in wikipedia:

@Another User said:

Marcato in the context of bowed string instruments is an arco technique for playing a stringed instrument, such as violin, viola, cello, and the double bass, also called contrabass, bass viol, or upright bass. Using the bow, one begins each note with a new attack, rather than continuing the motion of the bow from one note to the next, which is expression legato, or slurred. Marcato is not, however, staccato, as each note is still played for its entire duration.

But I can't really find out the definition of portato and what makes it a dictict articulation compared to marcato.

any ideas?

tele

[tele]

At www.bestservice.de for the special edition, they list string articualtion portato bur not Détaché. At the VSL site, detache is listed and not portato.
Reading Wikipedia in german, those 2 don't seem to be the same?

@Another User said:

Détaché - The term détaché simply means "separated" and it can be applied to any notes not linked by a slur. Stopping the bow on the string deadens the vibrations and thus creates a muted accent, elastic détaché which covered off-the-string strokes, and dragged détaché (détaché traîné) where smooth bow changes leave no audible gap between each note.

tele

[JWL]

Opinions and descriptions vary greatly, but here's is yet another:

Portato ( Porté in French ) (RH) : An slightly emphasized détaché, with added inflection possibly aided to a slight degree by a more expressive vibrato. This can be bowed with several notes in the same bow, or separately.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~leonid/glossary.htm

Portato has an inherent definition meaning "to carry" (not to be confused with a portamento which is a carrying of a different sort). It is not a pure legato, but it would seem that legato is "implied" where a slight separation between the notes in question would otherwise prevent a true legato from taking place.

In *very* general terms:

detaché inherently deals with the manner in which a note is released moreso than the way its attack might played. This is not to the exclusion of how an attack within the context of a detaché might be played.

marcato inherently deals with the manner in which a note is attacked and less with how it is released. This is not to the exclusion of how a release within the context of a marcto might be played.

portato includes some expressive considerations for what happens during the time in which the note is sustained, stopping short of an honest legato. This is not to the exclusion of how an attack or release within the context of a portato might be played.

There are, of course, degrees to which each articulation might be executed, and one must use their own personal taste to determine whether it is best to employ one articulation in favor of or instead of another where a long detaché (for example) might be more effective than a portato (or vice versa).

[Angelo Clematide]

Détaché ist wechselnde Bogenrichtung mit einem fliessenden, verbundenen Strich und gleichmässigem Ton. Détaché kann auch ganz gering akzentuiert werden, oder als "schnelles Détaché" ausgeführt werden. Der Charakter aber ist immer singend und cantabile. Berücksichtigt werden sollte, dass ein "grosses Détaché" wie es in Solo- und Kammermusik vorkommt im Orchesterstil als ein breites Martelé ausgeführt werden muss, z.B. wie in Schubert’s Sinfonie Nr. 8, Satz 2.

Dann gibt es noch:
Detaché Porté,
Detaché Lancé, und
betontes Detaché.

Portato oder Louré ist eine Serie von Noten gespielt in einer einzigen Bogenrichtung, pulsierend innerhalb eines andauernden Klangs. Die Lautstärke ist normalerweise eher piano. Gespielt nahe am oder auf dem Griffbrett, und mit schneller Bogengeschwindigkeit. Notation: die Portatobogentechnik wird bei punktierten als auch bei gebundenen Figuren angewendet. Louré, das französische Wort für Portato heisst Dudelsack, und so ähnlich ist der Ablauf des Klangs auch.

Diese Orchester-Stricharten gibt es nicht alle als Samples, aber so wie oben beschrieben ist es Bedeutung und Sprachgebrauch im Orchester.

.

[hermitage59]

You say Marcato, i say Portato...........

[H]

[Nathan Allen Pinard]

So I have a question:

In the most simplest of examples, say a C Major scale on a violin. To get the most realistic sound with VSL, would it be smart to keyswitch between performance legato and marcato examples based on when a new bow starts? Or would it be better to use what Beat describes on his site and just leave a 50ms space to start a new bow with a legato patch?

My understand is that marcato was a bit more forced, and better used for heavier and faster sections where more punch is needed.

This post is a good example of what I would like: A full list of all articulations and their descriptions.

[JWL]

@Nathan Allen Pinard said:

So I have a question:

In the most simplest of examples, say a C Major scale on a violin. To get the most realistic sound with VSL, would it be smart to keyswitch between performance legato and marcato examples based on when a new bow starts? Or would it be better to use what Beat describes on his site and just leave a 50ms space to start a new bow with a legato patch?

My understand is that marcato was a bit more forced, and better used for heavier and faster sections where more punch is needed.

This post is a good example of what I would like: A full list of all articulations and their descriptions.

I'd guess that either tecnhique would work well, depending upon the *desired* effect and the musical context.

In cases where the release samples in the legato perf patch might not want to cooperate to your liking, one could use keyswitches between "normal" long notes in combination with other articulations, marcato included. Musical context would be the most critical determining factor, I think, because there are so many different ways to execute the same sort of phrasing with these samples. Whether to use a marcato patch would perhaps hinge on how much emphasis would be desired on a perceived changed of bow.

[Nathan Allen Pinard]

That's the learning curve I was talking about. I use to work with low grade samples where it would just be one patch. All the work I put in would be based on just making the patch itself sound better. But with VSL, you really need to know what patches are best for what passages.

I guess a marco would be useful if you want it to be ephasized(sp)

[tele]

Thanks for all the info to all of you

tele