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Perf. Tool v. 3?
Last post Mon, Jan 31 2005 by Existence, 10 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 13:45
by belkina
Joined on Sun, Jun 13 2004, Montreal, Posts 504
Here's a subject I think is worth discussing.

At Namm Gary Garritan was showing off his new Violin solo morphing product - makes it possible to go from vibrato to non-vibrato samples *within* a sustained note without the crossfade sounding like a chorus effect. The demo online is very impressive:


What is particulary useful about this is that instead of having to program it with a whole bunch of separate tracks in a sequencer, you can do it in real time under mod wheel (or whatever) control.

Part of this is a technical breakthrough, but part of it is also a smarter sort of performance tool.

So far I have not heard a better sample library than VSL overall, but it remains a big commitment to learn and use.

That's why I think there is room for improvement in the dept. of a smarter perf. tool. especialy for those of us who can already play an instrument seriously, it would be nice to use our already developed musical skills in a more direct manner.

Ideas that come to mind are:

The perf. tool does some analysis (à la Synful) to save the user having to switch patches manually.

The perf. tool responds to some midi controller or other, say to change from portamento mode to repetition mode, again without having to set up new tracks, etc.

It seems to me that the future lies in hybrid technology like this, based on sampling (where VSL is king) but making input easier, and more musically immediate.

I'd be interested to hear other ideas in this direction ...

Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 13:57
by Laurent
Joined on Thu, Sep 05 2002, Paris, Posts 337
not bad but the sound is weird.
the "à la Synful" technology leads to a big latence, it has to recognize what you're doing before reproducing the appropriate sound.
It would be nice to have the performance tool recognize the staccato and legato in the same program
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 14:02
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8329
All I can say at the moment is: We _do_ listen. We _don't_ sleep. Ick!

All the best,

Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 14:05
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1660
From what is 'seen' in this .mov file - there is NO latency in Gary's violin. Many different articulations are 'real time' - allowing for speed of use and much more musical expression.

I have PE, but will be first in line for this new technology. The thought of 'morphing' this technology with the sample of VSL is nothing short of [Indifferent]

This would be quite nice.

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 15:12
by Martin Bayless
Joined on Sat, Oct 25 2003, New York, USA, Posts 266
I agree that if some sort of an external performance tool is necessary, it would be helpful if it was able to change modes within a single channel via command. The thing is, I'm not sure an external tool isn't already becoming obsolete. If i could avoid it now, I would (actually I already can but don't want to spend the time translating legato samples into iMIDI rules in GigaStudio). For all else, repetition and alternation, I've already converted those samples and no longer use the Performance Tool in those modes - precisely to keep instruments on a single staff (a.k.a. midi channel) for scoring.

The Garritan example seems like another case in point. It wasn't realy clear in the demo whether the vibrato is actually increasing in intensity as the modulation increases. If it isn't anything more than that, it can be done directly in GigaStudio now by setting up a patch where layers are triggered by the mod wheel but hard splice into each other rather than fade. Maybe not the greatest way to explain it, but more obvious in the crossfade editor in the GS Edit application.
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 15:52
by Laurent
Joined on Thu, Sep 05 2002, Paris, Posts 337
Dietz wrote:
All I can say at the moment is: We _do_ listen. We _don't_ sleep. Ick!

All the best,

Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Happy to hear this Dietz.
We were waiting for some exciting news from you for the Namm.
Will it be for the Musikmess for sure ?
Some announces at the Namm are like "you'll see it 2nd quater of this year" with no demo, no sound exemple, just a press release.
The good part of what you're doing is that when you'll start speaking of a new product, it will be ready for shipping
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 18:19
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8329
Thanks for bearing with us.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jan 26 2005 02:24
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206
Some of the products are announced like - "you can demo it next year right about here in our booth..." well, they don't say that of course Wink
A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Mon, Jan 31 2005 14:30
by paulhenrysmith
Joined on Sun, Feb 09 2003, Boston, Posts 158
Obviously the Perf Tool can use improvement, great though it is. In general, I strongly agree that the more it can be made to do WITHIN a single track the better. Using EXS24 means I have to have a separate track just to play a trill, for crying out loud. That whole separate trill track eats up one of the available EXS instances.

Now, I know that's not even a Perf Tool instrument (the trill), but I just use it as an example. I have not yet had an instrument (e.g., flute) that did not need to be split into repetition, legato, trill and dynamic layer tracks.

So, it may not just be the programming and features of the Perf Tool itself, but also the design of the EXS instruments. Perhaps they can be made to include many articulations in addition to those in performance-tool-only instruments.

Anyway, we're waiting with baited breath.

- Paul
Posted on Mon, Jan 31 2005 18:40
by Existence
Joined on Mon, Sep 20 2004, Seattle, WA, Posts 30
I think the limitation to this point has largely been the sample players and not necessarily the performance tool. Gigastudio for instance had severe limitations on available dimensions for each .gig file. Now that this limitation has been largely alleviated in version 3, much more deep and complex .art files (and the next generation of .art files) are and will be possible, with a corresponding 'tool' to morph/crossfade/select/lookahead/articulate/writemymusicforme, etc. between them.
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