Modwheel problems

[jamriding]

This is my first post. I am contemplating the purchase of VSL Pro using my Mac setup (Mac X.2.8, Dual 1.25 GHz PowerPC G4, DP 4.12, Mach 5 (1.2) using a Döpfer LMK4+ keyboard (just like in the VSL videos). I realise I shall also have to purchase Logic in order to make use of the EXS 24 capability.

Slight problems: I had a stroke several years ago which means I can now only play with the left hand. The modwheels on the Döpfer are also on the left hand side... Hmm!

Would it be possible to utilise a foot controller instead? I see that Döpfer have a FP5 foot controller which (in my wildest dreams) I might use to assist portamento, pitch bend, aftertouch etc. Would that be possible at all?

Many thanks for any input.

John.

[Dietz]

Welcome John!

Although there may be some initial tweaking necessary to tell all involved items what's going on, it makes absolutely no difference _what_ produces the stream of MIDI-data that is finally received by your sample-host.

The modulation wheel is unproblematic as it defaults to zero. If you want to use a pedal for the pitchbender this may be an issue, though, as I can't remember a solution where a pedal has a middle-detent. But then, the pitch-bender is not crucial for the use with our Library.

HTH,

[plowman]

Greetings John.

Logic has a feature called "Environment." There you can map anything to anything else. So all you'd need is access to any kind of continuous controller. (A continuous controller can transmit 0 to 127. There are non-continuous controllers -- like sustain pedals -- that are either off or on, either 0 or 127. That wouldn't work.)

Many of us draw in controller information after we play, or we add it as we play then tweak the daylights out of it.

Logic also has a Hyperdraw function that makes adding controller data quick and intuitive.

Cheers.

[jamriding]

Great news: think I might be on to a winner here...

[jamriding]

Plowman - I was particularly struck by one sentence of yours...



Many of us draw in controller information after we play, or we add it as we play then tweak the daylights out of it.



Does that mean that you can ascribe the necessary expression AFTER the event?

Cheers,

John.

[DG]

@jamriding said:

Plowman - I was particularly struck by one sentence of yours...



Many of us draw in controller information after we play, or we add it as we play then tweak the daylights out of it.



Does that mean that you can ascribe the necessary expression AFTER the event?

Cheers,

John.

Even if I "perform" the expression data as I play I nearly always have to tweak something after the event. There is no reason why you can't play the notes in and on the next pass use the modwheel and on the next pass add the expression etc.

DG

[plowman]

Absolutely. The only immediate benefit of moving any controller as you play is that you hear it live.

In Logic, Hyperdraw can be opened under the Matrix (the piano roll with the keyboard on the left) and Score (with the notes). You can draw in new controller data from scratch or re-shape the data recorded. (And this feature isn't unique to Logic. I'm sure you can add and manipulate controller data on any reasonably advanced sequencer.)

For that matter, you can record the notes, then record once more moving the controller live as the notes you just played play back to you. Or you could record the notes using a foot pedal for expression (once it's remapped), then re-visit the foot pedal in Hyperdraw and tweak it.

You have a lot of options. In the end, it's data entry, and the quickest method would soon make itself clear.

Regards.

[PolarBear]

...or go the long road as I sometimes do and play in the notes at one time, then tweak notes and controller data each and every with mouse only... only to also do the note input with mouse takes you longer [[;)]] But sometimes a keyboard is too far away [[;)]]

All the best,
PolarBear

[jamriding]

Thanks for all your help: a couple of further questions if I may...

Dietz: you say that "The modulation wheel is unproblematic as it defaults to zero".
Does the foot controller have the same capabilities? The FP5 controller looks, to my untutored eye, almost like a swell pedal on the organ.

DG: you say "There is no reason why you can't play the notes in and on the next pass use the modwheel and on the next pass add the expression etc". Is that the same as just saving the file initially, adding some expresssion and then just saving it again (or possibly "save as"?).

Please excuse my almost total ignorance on the subject...

[christianobermaier]

Let me jump in and reap the glory while the other guys are busy twiddling their thumbs...[:P]

>>"The modulation wheel is unproblematic as it defaults to zero".
>Does the foot controller have the same capabilities?

Yes. Full up - 0, full down - 127

>>"There is no reason why you can't play the notes in and on the next pass use the modwheel and on the next pass add the expression etc".
> Is that the same as just saving the file initially, adding some expresssion and then just saving it again (or possibly "save as"?).

Not at all. What he meant is, first you record the notes on one track. Then you rewind to the beginning and record your controller moves on top of that (actually you do this on different tracks but with the same instrument, but that's not the point now). You can record further notes, further controllers, any way you like, this way, until it sounds the way you intended to.

Christian

show reel home page studio pics gear list

[jamriding]

Thanks for the extremely prompt reply.

The Döpfer has 2 wheels: I can see what you're saying about wheel 2, but what about wheel 1 with its seemingly middle-detent? Is it less useful as far as VSL is concerned? I can't recall, off hand, what the presenter in the video actually used.

Also could you please elaborate those sentences "...first you record the notes on one track. Then you rewind to the beginning and record your controller moves on top of that (actually you do this on different tracks but with the same instrument, but that's not the point now)." I'm still a little confused.

[christianobermaier]

> what about wheel 1 with its seemingly middle-detent?

That's the pitch bend wheel. Up - raise the pitch, down lower the pitch. VSL doesn't use this as it sounds unnatural on a sample. So don't bother for now.

>"...first you record the notes on one track.

This bit is clear, right ? If it isn't then i suggest getting familiar with the basics of your sequencer first, as this is a given when trying to dive in into more advanced concepts.

> Then you rewind to the beginning

Like, the start of the song or the phrase you just recorded. Now you set up a second track (see sequencer basics), which plays the same instrument so whatever happens on either track affects the same sound/instrument.

> and record your controller moves

...which thus *add* expression to your already recorded notes on that previous track.

Christian

show reel home page studio pics gear list

[jamriding]

Thanks: I think your advice be will most helpful.

[rawmusic]

another solution that i am now using in Logic, is to set up a real-time transform object, which takes in what you play on your keyboard or input with controllers and maps them to other controllers on the fly. Specifically, I used one to remap any incoming sustain pedal action (controller no 64 I think) to controller no 1 (modulation). Thus, particularly when using portamento instruments, depressing the sustain pedal activates the luscious slide between notes. In fact, this feels very intuitive and works well.

If you do go down the logic route, and like the sound of this workaround, I shall be happy to send you step by step instructions on how to do this in Logic's environment. Logic is a big beast of a program and can look well daunting at first.

[christianobermaier]

Yes. Thinking this concept further leads to something like this:

http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Music/FaderMangler.jpg

where you can remap a bunch of controllers to anything you like, track automation even. It's in my Autoload and i use it every day.

Christian

[URL=http://www.artofthegroove.com/logic/mp3/Christian_Obermaier_demo.mp3]show reel [/URL] [URL=http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm]home page [/URL] [URL=http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Studio.htm]studio pics [/URL] [URL=http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Gearlist.htm]gear list [/URL]

[jamriding]

Thanks for all your help: very much appreciated...