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Production time for a 10 minute classical composition?
Last post Fri, Jan 04 2008 by DG, 19 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Dec 30 2007 19:49
by user_30995
Joined on Tue, Aug 14 2007, Posts 47

Hi all!

Imagine this scenario;

You get a Sibelius file from a client; it's a 10 minute classical piece for symphonic orchestra.

It is a medium detailed score, with most of the piano's and forte's and articulations noted.

The composition is all programmed and ready to be mixed and VSL'led by you. ;)

Let's say the piece is of medium "difficulty", some tempo changes, mood changes etc...

Working with one computer, how long does it take you to make;

1) a basic representable audio file? (small detail, but enough to make it real and convincing)

2) a detailed audio file with great depth, dynamics and true performance.

Can't wait to hear from you all, thanks! :)

-Emanuel

Posted on Sun, Dec 30 2007 22:31
by JBacal
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Posts 1210

For me a minimum of 2 weeks-- probably longer (but as I've said repeatedly I'm slow!).  However a very rough version could probably be done in only a few days.

Best,

Jay

Posted on Sun, Dec 30 2007 22:42
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
4 hours per minute - so it depends on how fast you need it.
Posted on Mon, Dec 31 2007 01:43
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

If I need the buy the Cube first probably a few years ;)

Good luck,

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Mon, Dec 31 2007 08:11
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
JBacal wrote:

 

For me a minimum of 2 weeks-- probably longer (but as I've said repeatedly I'm slow!).  However a very rough version could probably be done in only a few days.

 

Best,

Jay


I know everyone has their own ears and their own ideas, but Jay ROCKS OUT LOUD!!!

His demos are great, but it's the little things he *says* (which he thinks are incidental) that are MOST important to me.


For me, a work day is a minimum 14 hours and if Jay thinks he's slow-- then you'll never hear a complaint out of me.


Two weeks, Jay--? Is THAT all? :lol:
Posted on Mon, Dec 31 2007 20:32
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
To each his own methods, Mozart needed a couple of days to write a symphony and Brahms needed 40 years to refine his to the finest detail, which is better? Who's to say.
Posted on Tue, Jan 01 2008 10:55
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812
Hi Emanuel. If the programming were complete, the main job would be to select the right articulations for each instrument. This sort of work takes much longer than people realise. In my experience you'd probably have to tweak the programming in places (to make the legatos work properly, insert real played crescendos, etc.)
Emanuel wrote:

1) a basic representable audio file? (small detail, but enough to make it real and convincing)

2) a detailed audio file with great depth, dynamics and true performance.

I estimate to make it real and convincing would take me about 15 days. But I'd also say to get it to that level would involve a fair amount of detail, since it's the perfomance nuances that make samples sound real!

Posted on Tue, Jan 01 2008 14:36
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1772
Emanuel wrote:

Working with one computer, how long does it take you to make;

1) a basic representable audio file? (small detail, but enough to make it real and convincing)

2) a detailed audio file with great depth, dynamics and true performance.

 

Hello Emanuel

Another estimate (for Symphonic Orchestra):

1) 1 week (-2?) > 5 - 10 days à 9 hours    = 45 - 90 h  

2) 2 weeks (-3?) > 10 - 15 days à 9 hours = 90 - 140 h


1) My basic representable audio file would content the most important instruments. But these

    are like they would be in the final mix or in other words: with all details.   

Happy New Year!

Beat Kaufmann

____________________

www.beat-kaufmann.com

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Jan 02 2008 15:21
by user_30995
Joined on Tue, Aug 14 2007, Posts 47

Hi guys, thanks for your posts.

I kind of figured it would take some time, but not that long.

(My estimation was half of what one would need in reality.)

So very interesting indeed, thanks again!

Any more posts or thoughts are still welcome off course!

Posted on Wed, Jan 02 2008 19:38
by clarkcontrol
Joined on Mon, May 03 2004, The Pagan Underground, Posts 315
It would also depend on the material. Certain writing translates easily to samples while other things sound horrible and require a ton of tweaking or 'tricks' to get the right sound. ---Clark
Clark
Posted on Wed, Jan 02 2008 20:02
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
True, and the only rule I give myself is not to hand it in before you give it a nights rest and is happy the next day after the first listen, of course time is often a factor so that's not always possible, but if time is not a factor that's my rule, sometimes this happens after 1 day and other times 5,7, 8 etc days, and as Clark said it depends on the complexity of the work and samples required.
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 01:21
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1772

Guy wrote:
...is not to hand it in before you give it a rest ...
 

How true...

Beat

____________________________________________________________ 

By the way

Guy, I wish you all the Best for 2008,

and a lot of melodies and ideas for your projects Wink

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 14:39
by svonkampen
Joined on Wed, Jan 05 2005, San Diego, California, Posts 828


If the material has a lot of long sustained notes........(my writing does....as in film /mood material)
.......Then 80% of my mock-up time goes to drawing in the "velocity swell curves")

IT IS EVERYTHING!!

it takes forever to get it right......without it, forget it it will always sound bad...The last thing that is extremely time consuming is the slight tempo-curve changes, this takes a long time......it is crucial for making these types of cues sound "conducted"......without that finl touch, this material remains incredibly flat and lifeless........

Mind you I am speaking of extreme / realism here....Which in the end will still only sound circa 70% as good as the real thing....

It all depends on how obsessive you are willing to be ;-)


SvK
I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
MacPro 2x3Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon, 16 Gig RAM, 10.6.2, Metric Halo 2882, Logic 9
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 14:44
by svonkampen
Joined on Wed, Jan 05 2005, San Diego, California, Posts 828


So realistically, I would say 12 hours a minute....So 120 hours...........for 10 minutes...........this applies to the type of material I mentioned above, and does NOT include composition time...JUST mock-up time.....

SvK
I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
MacPro 2x3Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon, 16 Gig RAM, 10.6.2, Metric Halo 2882, Logic 9
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 14:48
by svonkampen
Joined on Wed, Jan 05 2005, San Diego, California, Posts 828
So realistically, I would say 12 hours a minute....So 120 hours...........for 10 minutes...........this applies to the type of material I mentioned above, and does NOT include composition time...JUST mock-up time.....

click on "SvK_Corridor_Homage.mp3"

http://www.vi-control.ne...rum/viewtopic.php?t=8307

SvK
I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
MacPro 2x3Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon, 16 Gig RAM, 10.6.2, Metric Halo 2882, Logic 9
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 22:58
by user_30995
Joined on Tue, Aug 14 2007, Posts 47

Hi SVK, thanks for your input here.

Read your posts on the link you send;

Very generous and most documented to see the velocity curves and all.

Thanks man!

Phew 12 hours a minute...

-Emanuel

Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 23:14
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
Beat Kaufmann wrote:

Guy wrote:
...is not to hand it in before you give it a rest ...
 

How true...

 

Beat

____________________________________________________________ 

By the way

Guy, I wish you all the Best for 2008,

and a lot of melodies and ideas for your projects Wink



Thanks Beat, of course I wish you great things as well for 2008.
Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 02:13
by user_30995
Joined on Tue, Aug 14 2007, Posts 47

Hey Guy and Beat and Jay!

Thanks for your professional posts here.

Greatly appreciated ;)

-Em

Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 10:16
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

There is a lot of good information in this thread. However, the one thing where the answer depends on your sequencer is the little Tempo fluctuations issue. I find this the easiest and quickest bit to do. I just play and record the track live with everything else muted, complete with wrong notes and chords, and then either drag the barlines to fit the "performance" or use merge from tap tempo. It takes roughly as long to do as it takes to play the track twice. Of course I have a lot of conducting experience, so I find this sort of thing very easy.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
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