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RAM Speed
Last post Tue, Feb 26 2008 by cm, 14 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 04:26
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
Hi

How much of a difference does Ram speed make in using vienna? Would DDR 266 SDRAM be fast enough, what about DDR 333 SDRAM or do you really need 667?



Thanks!
Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 23:28
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

the difference between DDR 266 (aka PC2100) and DDR333 (aka PC2700) would hardly be noticable, but DDR667 (aka PC2-5300) is another type of RAM (1.8 vs. 2.5 V) and runs mostly as dual channel memory needing another controller, means another motherboard ... and is of course much faster ...

you would notice a huge difference for loading time (if your harddisks can deliver data ...)

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 00:00
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
Thanks cm. Would a PC with 2 Dual Xeon 2.4 CPU's in it and 16GB of DDR333 RAM be fast enough to run vienna on?
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 02:23
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206
cm wrote:

you would notice a huge difference for loading time (if your harddisks can deliver data ...)

Really? Actually I was wondering about this as well with the dreaded RAM timing question... 5-5-5-18 vs. 4-4-4-12 e.g. Does it really make a noticeable difference? I doubt that because memory bandwidth is already several GB/s with PC2100 and of course a lot higher with PC2-5300 or PC2-6400. With harddrives delivering a few 100MB/s at max even when RAIDed it does not really matter I think.

And as far as reading sample buffers from it goes, there's the fixed 64kb buffer, that will get delivered quickly enough no matter how fast the RAM is, and won't change a thing regarding possible polyphony. Or didn't I think of something more or less obvious?

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 02:27
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206
Simsy wrote:
Thanks cm. Would a PC with 2 Dual Xeon 2.4 CPU's in it and 16GB of DDR333 RAM be fast enough to run vienna on?

Simsy, which board do you have in mind? Dunno for sure, but I think there are not many boards for Dual Xeon that support DDR333 RAM if there is any... did you check back with the specifications of the manufacturor if that's a possibility? Did you also look if it doesn't need fully buffered DDR2 DIMMs? I'm pretty sure it does.

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 02:44
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

IIRC bandwidth for PC2100 is at best 2.1 giga_bit/sec which is a burst rate and equals to 260 MB/s without considering any wait-states, refresh-cycles ect ...

however there are XEON 2,4 GHz with a 533 FSB and DDR266 dual channel .... could be a good buy currently (you can get them as refurbished machines ffor ~ 400 EUR with at least some RAM)

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 03:01
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
Yeah I have seen a machine and was thinking of getting it, would it run Vienna Ensemble ok?
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 08:49
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

basically yes, try to get as much RAM as possible (of course more than 4 GB needs a 64bit OS)

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 15:37
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

Btw. I'm sorry Simsy that my answers to your threads have not been very helpful or even possibly misleading to you. Just thought I could help there!

All the best,

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 15:59
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
PolarBear wrote:

Btw. I'm sorry Simsy that my answers to your threads have not been very helpful or even possibly misleading to you. Just thought I could help there!

 

All the best,

PolarBear 



No problem PolarBear, I appreciate all the advice that I get. I just want to make sure that this spec of a machine is going to work with VE.
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 16:01
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
cm wrote:

basically yes, try to get as much RAM as possible (of course more than 4 GB needs a 64bit OS)

christian


I am sorry to ask again, but will it run a few say, 4 or 5 Vienna Ensembles fine? But it will just take a while to load all the samples into memory? Or is the memory speed going to reduce the number of Vienna Instruments that I can run?



I am really sorry about asking again, I promise this is the last time!! LOL
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 21:49
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

no problem - just ask, not everybody is a computer technician ...

 

slow components will slow down all processes

- slower RAM will slow down the loading process

- a slow harddisk might limit you in the amount of voices which can be streamed simultaneously

- a slow processor (something about 1 GHz) would limit you anyway ...

 

- a Vienna Ensemble Instance needs about 50 MB RAM

- each inserted ViennaInstrument will need about 20 MB RAM

- each loaded preset/matrix/patch will need the respective memory

 

so depending on the available memory of your computer you can run a certain number of VEs with more or less inserted VIs loading the selected content

 

CPU wise a dual XEON 2.4 should give you at least 30 simultaneously loaded and playing tracks ....

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Tue, Feb 26 2008 20:56
by Simsy
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, Posts 385
Hi Christian,


Thanks very much for your help! It is really appreciated. Sorry but I have one more question:



How much difference will there be in number of Vienna Instruments I can run inside of VE between a machine with 2 x Dual Core 2.8 Ghz and say a machine with 2 x Dual Core 2.0 Ghz? Also are all Dual Core Xeon processors able to run XP64?


Thanks!
Posted on Tue, Feb 26 2008 21:26
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

say if 50 ViennaInstruments need 20% CPU on a 2 core2duo 2.8 then consider they will need ~ 25% CPU on a 2 x core2duo 2.0

 

i can't remember exactly but a very early test on a quad XEON woodcrest 2.8 (2 x dual core XEON) with 48 ViennaInstruments needed 17% CPU (this figure might vary a little bit depending on what you've loaded)

 

every intel processor better than and including coreDuo can run 64bit operating systems (i'd assume you actually can no longer purchase any which can not)

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
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