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  4. Would like advice on recently composed game music

  • Would like advice on recently composed game music

    V
    V

    Hi guys,

    I'd really like to get your views on these two pieces I made for a video game a friend of mine is working on. It's a massive multiplayer based on the Homeworld platform.

    http://www.vincentlpratte.com/homeworld_-_neutral.mp3

    http://www.vincentlpratte.com/homeworld_-_defense.mp3

    "Neutral" is the normal music playing when nothing in particular is happening.

    "Defense" is heard when your base is attacked by the ennemy.

    Any advise on the music or the especially the post-pro will be gladly taken!

    Thanks for listening!
  • S
    S

    They seem totally appropriate for their use - I like them

    On a "production"side, I think you need to have a think about which articulations you are using  - I may be wrong but it sounds like you are just using the basic sustain regardless of whether the notes are short, long, legato....

    Steve
  • F
    F

    Hi

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that they work very nicely as game music :)

    From a musical point of view, just as steve mentioned, there's too little micro dynamic. By that I mean "realistic" use of articulations.

    If you don't know how to use key switches for changing patches, you can watch a great video in the user area.

    Try doubling some instruments, or add a different score in the backround.

    Also, you should check out the velocity cross-fade (f.i assigning it to the mod-wheel). It will allow you cross fade between the different velocity layers, and I feel it's essential for obtaining a realistic sound.

    On the production side, you will get a more realistic sound (it's really alpha-omega) by sending each instrument to a reverb channel (or several), and mixing it in the total sound image. It's quite common to set all sends to pre-fader, so you can control the precense of an instrument with the channel fader, and if needed adjust the reverb as well.

    Hope this helps:)

    Good luck

    -Fred
  • V
    V

    Hi guys,

    I'm glad you took the time to listen and to make comments, I really appreciate.

    I work with VSL SE, so I don't have much articulations to work with. I struggle especially with the short notes for the strings, because even the détaché patch takes too much time to develop than what I would have needed. Perhaps this is what made you think I only used sustain patches. Until I can get my hand on the SE+ package, I can't really do anything in that regard. Even when I shorten the attack time in the Patch Edit window, it doesn't really do much of a difference. Anything I'm missing there?

    I do make use ot keyswitches, velocity crossfade (coupled with expression controller) and pre-send reverb exactly as you described. Do you still think all instruments sound like they are too close to the micrcophone? If so, what tips could you give me in order to improve my sound? Quickly, how would you level the different sends for a standard orchestra? By the way, I don't really like the reverb plug-in I use but I'm stuck with it because it's the only one I have. It's D-verb and it comes with Pro Tools. Too few options and the result sounds synthetic no matter what.
  • F
    F

    But you do have staccato patches with VI SE Standard. I would have set all track sends to pre-fader, and then lowered the track fader. Also applied more reverb. If the staccato are too short, you can apply them on top of another patch, say detaché, and use them for extra attack. 
  • V
    V
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    I would have set all track sends to pre-fader, and then lowered the track fader. Also applied more reverb.

    I've already done that. Strings are at around  -10db, woodwinds at more or less -14db and brass at -17db. Percussion have almost not dry signal. I also have extra reverb plug-ins for my brass and percussion tracks.

    Thanks again for these valuable advices!
  • V
    V

    Just uploaded a new version of the defense piece based on your advices.

    http://www.vincentlpratte.com/homeworld_-_defense.mp3
  • F
    F

    In my opinion the 16th notes must be staccato patches, or else they sound midi.

    Overall the notes are a bit too long (for their type) so they sound unrealistic to me.

    Try the staccato patches for some of the notes, and add more reverb if it sounds too short.
  • V
    V

    Ok, I'll try that.

    Thanks again.
  • V
    V

    Here's my latest addition :

    http://www.vincentlpratte.com/homeworld_-_theme.mp3

    This is the main theme of the game. Again, any advice will be gladly taken! Thanks a lot!
  • F
    F

    I like the orchestration, however, (not surprisingly) I'd like to hear it with staccato patches, hehe. You do understand what I mean, right?
  • V
    V

    I see what you mean. Yet I did use a lot of staccato patches (and only staccato this time), especially for the sixteenth notes of the strings like you recommended before.
  • C
    C

    Hello Vincent

    Your piece is definitely coming along.  [Y]

    I'd try and bring the strings forward, they are not prominent enough in general. To my ears it's only the passage at 2'00" where they sound synthy that's letting the side down. I understand that with just the SE you are limited so maybe a little re-orchestration at that point?

    Keep it up..

    Colin
  • F
    F

    It's definitely an improvement! And musicially, it's not bad at all. When I come to think of it, I find something "wrong"with your orchistration after all. At 00:10 the cornet/trumpet & euphonium/horn, plays too much legato, however, NOT legato enough. Either go all the way, or back up. I'd reckon a more normal approach would be f.i all staccato, or "short short long (breath) short" The point is just trying to eliminate the machinegun effect. The trumpet theme at 00:30 is ok, albeit I find the tenuto/legato playing to be just "almost" legato, and too much tenuto there as well. At 00:50 the main thing that tells me this is virtual, is the dynamics. There seems to be only one articulation. Have you tried blending in some shorter/longer notes? It sounds like it could use some velocity crossfading as well. 

    Lowering the channel fader and increasing the velocity fader, will give you a more realistic sound when playing the "loudly" as well.

    When it comes to panning/mixing I suggest you listen to some real takes, and try to position your instruments accordingly. Of course you have to experiment :) And perhaps some more reverb on the instruments with lower precedence.

    And remember, these are just my opinions ;)

    Best regards

    Fred
  • V
    V

    Hi guys,

    Thank you both for your comments, I can't stress enough how much I appreciate. I'll try to make to most out of them

    I'm just wondering how could I make a passage more legato than it is, since I only have the standard legato patch to work with? And when you say there's too much tenuto, do you mean I should shorten the notes or use a shorter patch (e.i. staccato)? I think using staccato in such melodic passage would sound out of place, wouldn't it?

    I've tried to blend in a few patches, for exemple full staccato with staccato/sustain (to keep the attack similar). But again, I don't have much choice in terms of variety of attacks. 

    As for the velocity crossfade, I'm surprise you don't hear it that much because I use it all the time, especially in the more melodic passages. By the way, which method would you recommend: I use velocity crossfade coupled with the expression controller, but is it more efficient to have both working separately?
  • F
    F

    Hi

    When I say too much tenuto, I am refering to either the length of the midi note, or the patch being used. By more legato, I don't mean another patch, but the length of the midi note. Overlapping notes is great for legato. I do not couple velocity crossfade with expression, because in my opinion you lose some of the advantage of the different sounding layers. It's very difficult to hear if you are using it or not, (at least I find it difficult in this case), but I am sure that if you x-fade off some notes before you attack another, f.i, you will get a nice realistic effect. I'm headed for sleepyland now, but I'll check back in the morning :)

    Fred
  • V
    V

    Again, precious advices. Thanks for all.
  • V
    V

    Finally, here's the last piece I wrote for that video game. As its title suggests, it is meant to be played when your team attacks another, or something like that.

    http://www.vincentlpratte.com/homeworld_-_attack.mp3

    Thanks for listening!
  • G
    G

    Heya vincent,

    The music is good but i would say its still not sounding enough realistic and make it sound to much midi.

    Are you using any EQ or others plugins? If no you should make a try. I know its not easy to use when you don't know much about it but i am sure it will help you a lot. I think that the music write is good and you just need now to work on the "sound" for make a trumpet sound as much possible as a trumpet in real condition. It can be by adding some EQ/compressor and/or also by trying using diferent sample like use the trumpeta3 sustain with a trumpet in C legato. I am sure other would give you some advice on how to use EQ and all ^.^

    Keep going that good work you are geting closer and closer. Best Gilles
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