Another Notation Question (Violins)

[RainerL]

Hi,

to learn something about instrumentation I study some scores of orchestral works which I know very well from listening.

My question concerns to Dvorak´s Symphony No.9 From The New World, 4. movement, and there the first main theme played from horns and trumpet, beginning with bar no. 10.

The Violins I  play the following notes/chords (sorry if the octave number is not correct): E5 (single note);  E4-C5;  E3-B3-G4;  D3-B3-B4;   E3-B3-G4;   G3-E4-B4;   Fis3-E4-C5;   B3-B4;   Dis4-Dis5;  then monophonic 16tel run and finally B3-B4.

The Violins II play:    E3-B3-G4;  E3-C4-E4;   G3-B3-E4;  B2-D3-B3;   G3-H3-E4 .....

The Violas play a similar part.  

Do the violins and violas play double and triple stops in this part?  The score does not contain such instructions.

My first results to compose such a "heroic" theme were not exactly what I imagined. Comparing now with this score one mistake was to let the instruments play too less voices.  So I come to the conclusion that for such orchestral passages (orchestra strikes) it is normal for violins and violas to play double and triple stops. Can you confirm this, or am I wrong?

Thank you for your answers,

Rainer

[RainerL]

 Ýesterday I read in a book about instrumentation that the double and triple stops are more powerfull but should be assisted from the woodwinds and brass because of the intonation problem.

The composer arranges divisi if he wants to achieve a more homogenous sound with accurate intonation.

So I think that the strings in the example above play triple stops, and for my work I will try to write double stops and triple stops which can be played without breaking the fingers...

[aural]

@RainerL said:

 Ýesterday I read in a book about instrumentation that the double and triple stops are more powerfull but should be assisted from the woodwinds and brass because of the intonation problem.

The composer arranges divisi if he wants to achieve a more homogenous sound with accurate intonation.

So I think that the strings in the example above play triple stops, and for my work I will try to write double stops and triple stops which can be played without breaking the fingers...

there is no "should" in instrumentation. if you only want a string sound, then only use the strings, no matter what any book or teacher on this planet sais. if we are talking about intonation and that book sais that the brass should assist the strings, then we´re talking about the blind leading the blind... intonation for brass is also quite a difficult matter. professional orchestras have to be able to intonate correctly without assistance. period.

what he writes about divisi is not the whole truth either. what if a composer needs 14 independent voices in the string section? that is also an important point. if you divide the strings, they sound less powerful and you get almost the feel of a chamber orchestra. the less instruments play a note, the more precise it gets and the more vivid and distinct. plus: fast lines just can´t be played using double stops. it all depends on what you want and need for your music.

this is all a very huge field actually and is difficult to be dealt with in a forum...

[RainerL]

 Hi aural,

thank you for your remarks. I appreciate each help in learning a bit more about instrumentation.

The score of the above mentioned example is listed on imslp.org if someone wants to have a look at it. 

Best, Rainer 

[aural]

just took a look at the score... thanks for the link...

they are clearly playing double and triple stops. they are accents played in fortissimo and dvorak wants the chords to sound harsh and furious.

[RainerL]

Thank you very much for the confirmation, aural!

Now I am a step further and know how to go on. [:)]