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Still not getting how Preserve works
Last post Sun, May 16 2010 by Paul, 7 replies.
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Posted on Fri, May 14 2010 21:56
by rtcstudio
Joined on Mon, Nov 05 2007, Franklin, TN, Posts 71

Sorry to be dense, but I'm still not quite sure how Preserve works.  My understanding is that it makes it so that your VE PRO "racks" will just sit there while you open up Logic sessions at will.  Perhaps I'm confusing Decouple and Preserve (it's just not really clear in the manual).

So I tried experimenting with a really small Logic song.  I created one with a VE Pro instance.  I have Logic tracks for solo Violin and Solo Cello.  In the VE Pro window, I set up a 2 tracks with Kontakt 4 on them (I have Vienna SE, but wanted to use Kontakt, since I know it can cause its own set of problems).  On these two Kontakts I open LA Strings solo vln and solo cello respectively.

I set up Logic so that everything is playing and coming back to me as expected.  I save the Logic song.  I then click on the Preserve icon in the VE Pro.

I now change up levels and panning in the Logic song, just to be like a different cue.  I do a save as.  I now have a "Logic Test Cue 1" and a "Logic Test Cue 2, panned" saved.

Now I close Logic Test Cue 2, panned.  The VE Pro stays open as you'd expect.

I now open the original Logic Test Cue 1.  As it opens, the VE Pro can be seen "Loading Data".  I thought the Preserve function prevented this, and gave you the option (the little downward arrow) to load or discard the plugin data.

What am I doinig wrong?

Paul Mills
PCM Productions
Logic 10.1.1, Pro Tools HDX 11, Mac OS 10.10.3 on Mac Pro 12 core 2 x 2.4Ghz, 64 GB RAM, RME RayDat, Slave 1: Mac Pro 8 core 2.66 Ghz, 10.7.5, 24 GB RAM, Slave 2 AMD Phenom II x4 965 32 GB RAM Win 7 Pro, Slave 3 AMD A10-7850k 32GB RAM Win 7 Pro
VE Pro, Vienna SpecEd & Ext, LAss, Play Sym Orch Plat+, Sym Choirs+, Passion, Ra, SD, SD2, Kontakt 5.4.3, Hollywood Strings, Brass, WW etc
Posted on Fri, May 14 2010 22:29
by robjohn33
Joined on Fri, May 08 2009, New York City, Posts 27
I second the motion - I would LOVE to have a clear explanation also (apologies if I'm simply daft :-))...
- robjohn
Logic 9.1, Mac Os x Snow Leopard
Posted on Sat, May 15 2010 08:47
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12104

Hi guys,

I have done my best to explain the features in the manual - I´m afraid I can´t make it any simpler here.

However, if you want a preserved instance to be saved WITH YOUR SONG, you need to preserve this instance BEFORE you save your song!!!

Otherwise your song won´t know what to look for.

All of this and more is summarized and explained with screenshots and examples on pages 14-17 in your VE PRO manual.

I guess I am the wrong guy to give another explanation for this, but I´m happy to hear about better/shorter explanations!

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, May 15 2010 17:11
by rtcstudio
Joined on Mon, Nov 05 2007, Franklin, TN, Posts 71

Hey Paul,

I did indeed read your manual, especially the pages you so kindly pointed out.

Instead of assuming that I was criticizing your manual, or that your manual explains everything in the most clear sense in the best way, you might have simply answered my question in my first post.  I'm not sure you even read through my steps.  You and this forum are the best place, as far as I know to get help and answers.  If all you're going to do is refer me to the manual (which hasn't really changed since this software first came out), and basically imply that I'm incompetent, then what is the forum for?  I looked everywhere on your site, even for a video tutorial on this and did not find anything.  If there are other resources for me besides trial and error, I welcome you pointing me to those.  Even the section you refer to in the manual is called "An Overview".  It is not a tutorial.

But, I started anew today, and again I went through each step in those pages.  I started VE Pro Server, I then opened Logic and created a blank project.  I then created an instrument track and opened VE Pro (multi).  I then went over to VE Pro  and in the mixer created 2 stereo channels with Kontakt 4 on them.  I had one be violins, and the other be cello (this is all very similar to my first post so far).  I then set up all audio channels and midi channels so that I could play as expected.  I saved this Logic project as STRINGS 1.  I then went to the VE Pro and pressed PRESERVE.  I named this Strings 1.  I then went back to Logic and saved the song one last time.

Now I did a "Save as" in Logic and named the project STRINGS 2.  So now I have everything as described in your manual, 2 Logic project sessions and one VE Pro Preserved instance called Strings 1.

Now I close STRINGS 2 in Logic - now no Logic song is open at all.  The VE Server Interface does close, as does the mixer window.  However the Server Window still shows  the Preserved Strings 1 as connected to the local host, AND the icon does not show un plugged.  This is contrary to what your manual states, and the screenshot shows at the bottom of page 14: "As soon as you close your song, the preserved instance will be disconnected (the plug icon in the Vienna Ensemble Pro Server window indicates this state as well).  Mine does not indicate this.  The icon is still connected and the instance is connected to the localhost.

Even so, I open up the Logic song STRINGS 1.  As expected from the manual, the song opens, and the VE Server window and mixer open up.  I can play violins and cellos just fine.  All is well.  The VE Pro Window shows the Preserve icon red and the name Strings 1 is there.  And the plugin data arrow is there if I need it.

Now I close the Logic Song.  Again, the Server Window does not show a disconnect, but the Server Interface and the Mixer window do close.  In the Server Window, Strings 1 is still connected to localhost, and the icon shows connected as well.

Is this descrepancy in the manual versus actual experience associated with Logic only?  It's not a big deal, but it is different from the manual.

I am not sure what I did, in my first post, to make VE Pro load all settings each time.  Perhaps I got the order of steps (click Preserve, THEN save the Logic Song) wrong, or failed to do one last save of the Logic song after pressing Preserve.

Paul, I can figure all this out on my own, and I really don't care if my Server Window shows something different from your manual screenshots and descriptions, as long as I can figure it out and get work done.  But if you have something to patiently add, I sincerely am willing to learn.  This is all new, and I am one of VE Pro's biggest fans.  I have already talked this up to many of my composer and keyboard friends here in Nashville and other places.  I would like to think that I can come here and get help if I need it, no matter how silly or incompetent I may sound to you initially.  I'm actually a pretty savvy guy when it comes to software.  I'm also a pretty nice and decent guy, when treated the same.

Paul Mills
PCM Productions
Logic 10.1.1, Pro Tools HDX 11, Mac OS 10.10.3 on Mac Pro 12 core 2 x 2.4Ghz, 64 GB RAM, RME RayDat, Slave 1: Mac Pro 8 core 2.66 Ghz, 10.7.5, 24 GB RAM, Slave 2 AMD Phenom II x4 965 32 GB RAM Win 7 Pro, Slave 3 AMD A10-7850k 32GB RAM Win 7 Pro
VE Pro, Vienna SpecEd & Ext, LAss, Play Sym Orch Plat+, Sym Choirs+, Passion, Ra, SD, SD2, Kontakt 5.4.3, Hollywood Strings, Brass, WW etc
Posted on Sat, May 15 2010 19:05
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12104

Hello Paul, 

I´m sorry that this upset you so much, it was not intended, and I didn´t mean to treat you badly. I am not a native-speaker, but I´m doing my best to stay friendly and polite.

You are right, Logic is an exception here. It keeps VE PRO shown as "connected" after you closed your song - until you load a new song.

This is Logic-specific behaviour and I must have overlooked that this was irritating you. I will add this information to the next version of the manual (that actually changed a lot from the first version, quite some chapters have been added as well as a glossary Smile).

Once again, my apologies. I hope that I answered your initial question as well.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, May 16 2010 10:30
by rino amato
Joined on Wed, Aug 13 2003, Rome-Europe, Posts 494

Paul wrote:

You are right, Logic is an exception here. 

Sorry, I think there is another exception in Logic... Indifferent

From page 15 of the manual :

"To un-preserve a Vienna Ensemble Pro instance, click on the activated Preserve icon. Your VEPro instance will then close when you close your song."

This does not happen... to close the/that instance, after un-preserved it, I've got to quit Logic...

Can you confirm, please? 

Posted on Sun, May 16 2010 11:48
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12104

Hello Rino,

confirmed. Logic only really "closes" songs when you load the next one. It´s the same for "Preserve" and "Unpreserve". Again, Logic is the only host that behaves that way.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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