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Appassionata vs Orchestral Strings
Last post Fri, Dec 09 2011 by Beat Kaufmann, 14 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Sep 10 2011 07:27
by MAJ
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2009, Posts 33
Hello,

Can you explain me, what's diference in sound of Appassionata and Orchestral Strings, please? I own the Orchestral Strings I with the Extension library. This sounds me very close (like close mics) on demo songs on vsl web too. If I'm listening demos of Appassionata on vsl web, it sounds me like distance mics (and bigger sections, of course). Is this (the distance) possible? Or is this just using the right Reverb in the demo songs?

Which Strings are you using, Appassionata or Orchestral, and why?

Thanks a lot,
Best regards,
Martin
***
www.majstudio.com
Mac Pro 8-core; 16GB RAM
Logic 9 or Digital Performer 7
SE&SE+; Orchestral Strings I + Extended; Woodwinds I; Vienna Choir I + Extended
VSL Suite; VSL VEPro 5 & MIR Pro
Posted on Sat, Sep 10 2011 19:50
by noldar12
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 582

 MAJ, I've made a few comments in the other thread where you also posted your questions.

Posted on Sat, Sep 10 2011 23:03
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
MAJ wrote:
Hello, Can you explain me, what's diference in sound of Appassionata and Orchestral Strings, please? I own the Orchestral Strings I with the Extension library. This sounds me very close (like close mics) on demo songs on vsl web too....

This and other forums are full of explanations.Sometimes it would be better to offer examples...

In this case I can offer two sound demos for comparing the sounds of all VSL-strings

Go to http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/demos/index.php

1. Choose "Music B. Kaufmann" and select "Irish Strings VI08"

  • 00:00 - 00:49 Solostrings (Viola starts with the melody)
  • 00:50 - 01:33 Chamberstrings (Viola again..)
  • 01:34 - 02:19 Orchestra Strings
  • 02:20 - 02:50 Appassionat Strings
  • 02:51 - End mixed Strings

I used the same articulations for all strings, the same reverb, no EQs, I just panned them a bit to right and left...

Funny to see how agil the Appassionats can play the pattern...

2. Choose "Various Composers" and the "BK_BWV_622_Oh_Mensch_bewein..."

  • 00:00 - 01:09 Solo Viola
  • 01:10 - 02:18 Solo Strings
  • 02:18 - 03:02 Chamberstrings
  • 03:03 - 03:44 Orchestra Strings
  • 03:45 - 04:33 Appassionat Strings (Orchestra Ctr Basses as well (a bit enhanced and fited to the Appassionata sound))

For all strings: I used the same Reverb, no EQs, Panning yes  (individual)

BTW, I often mix the Strings: 

  • App + Orch 
  • App + Chamber 
  • Sometimes I also add the Solo Strings with the Apps

So maybe the title here should be: Appassionata and Orchestra Strings?

Have fun

Beat Kaufmann

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sun, Sep 11 2011 13:09
by MAJ
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2009, Posts 33
Hello guys,
Thanks a lot for this, it's really helpfull to me!

All the best
Martin
***
www.majstudio.com
Mac Pro 8-core; 16GB RAM
Logic 9 or Digital Performer 7
SE&SE+; Orchestral Strings I + Extended; Woodwinds I; Vienna Choir I + Extended
VSL Suite; VSL VEPro 5 & MIR Pro
Posted on Mon, Sep 12 2011 07:28
by MAJ
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2009, Posts 33
I have one more question, Beat,

Why are you layering the Strings: App + Orch for example? You make even begger setup this way? Why, App is not big enough for you?


Thanks a lot!
Martin
***
www.majstudio.com
Mac Pro 8-core; 16GB RAM
Logic 9 or Digital Performer 7
SE&SE+; Orchestral Strings I + Extended; Woodwinds I; Vienna Choir I + Extended
VSL Suite; VSL VEPro 5 & MIR Pro
Posted on Mon, Sep 12 2011 08:04
by Erik
Joined on Sat, Nov 20 2004, The Netherlands, Posts 144

Hi,

This might be interesting for you: a comparison of a.o. App and Orch VSL. This was used before somewhere on this forum, but I can't find the thread anymore.

Best,

Erik

Posted on Mon, Sep 12 2011 12:42
by Gusfmm
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, USA, Posts 67

Beat Kaufmann wrote:
In this case I can offer two sound demos for comparing the sounds of all VSL-strings

 Go to http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/demos/index.php

1. Choose "Music B. Kaufmann" and select "Irish Strings VI08"

  • 00:00 - 00:49 Solostrings (Viola starts with the melody)
  • 00:50 - 01:33 Chamberstrings (Viola again..)
  • 01:34 - 02:19 Orchestra Strings
  • 02:20 - 02:50 Appassionat Strings
  • 02:51 - End mixed Strings

I used the same articulations for all strings, the same reverb, no EQs, I just panned them a bit to right and left...

Funny to see how agil the Appassionats can play the pattern... 

Beat Kaufmann

 

Maybe just me, but leaving articulations and playing style aside for a moment, I personally heard the Appassionata section sound a bit duller, which was exactly the opposite I was expecting.

Posted on Mon, Sep 12 2011 15:28
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
Gusfmm wrote:
Maybe just me, but leaving articulations and playing style aside for a moment, I personally heard the Appassionata section sound a bit duller, which was exactly the opposite I was expecting.

Hello Gusfmm

Keep in mind that the Appassionatas come with 20 Violins. So for recording them the microphones have been farther away than those of the chamber strings. You can explain this difference with "duller", "roomy, spacy, more distant,... beside another sound - coming from the 20 Violins.

Nevertheless, the appassionatas can sound shiny as well in the upper register...

For that I recommend to listen to the Air of Bach at

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/inspir/index.php  (Demo 2) Sidebar.

00:00 - 01:42 Chamberstrings II

01:43 - 03:25 Appassionatas

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Sep 12 2011 15:42
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740

MAJ wrote:
I have one more question, Beat,

Why are you layering the Strings: App + Orch for example? You make even begger setup this way? Why, App is not big enough for you?


Thanks a lot! 

Martin

Martin, I thought that here a demo is best as well. So please listen to the example and read the added text here:

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-4/index.php (No 29.)

Of course id depends on the balance you choose between all the libraries.

Even if I added the Solos and the Chambers in a moderate ratio I'm sure you canl make out a difference.

Please also compare the sequence 00:35 - 00:38 with the faster legatos. Which version does sound closer to the reality?

Have fun

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, Sep 13 2011 01:42
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2699

Hello Beat

Do you use the same reverb settings for the whole piece ?

Best

Cyril

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Posted on Tue, Sep 13 2011 08:18
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
Cyril wrote:

Hello Beat

Do you use the same reverb settings for the whole piece ?

Best

Cyril

Yes - all the strings through the same "depth".

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Sep 14 2011 08:19
by MAJ
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2009, Posts 33
This is very helpful, great, thanks!
The Orchestral Strings sounds the best to me. :-) Better result is to use division technique, for me, than using Appassionate, I think. And I can save the money, and buy Percussions. :-)
I'm thinking about the ratio of Strings and other VSL instruments. For example, if I use Chamber Strings and WoodWinds I/II or Brass I/II, I'm afraid of balance of instruments count. It has to sounds different, if I use Chamber Strings with WoodWind section or Appassionata Strings with the same WoodWind section, isn't it? It will sounds too "Stringy" or "Windy", or not?
BestMartin
***
www.majstudio.com
Mac Pro 8-core; 16GB RAM
Logic 9 or Digital Performer 7
SE&SE+; Orchestral Strings I + Extended; Woodwinds I; Vienna Choir I + Extended
VSL Suite; VSL VEPro 5 & MIR Pro
Posted on Fri, Dec 09 2011 18:29
by Nick_E
Joined on Fri, Dec 10 2010, Toronto, Posts 3
Hey, just wanted to tell you that I love the content on your website! Do you use Sibelius or any notation software to write you demos or just cubase ?
Posted on Fri, Dec 09 2011 20:35
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
Nick_E wrote:
Hey, just wanted to tell you that I love the content on your website! Do you use Sibelius or any notation software to write you demos or just cubase ?

Hello Nick

I'm not sure, but if you are asking me:

1. Yes, I'm using just Cubase.

2. Thanks for your compliment

All the best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
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