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Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 00:16
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

Hello everyone!

I want to simulate orchestra violins II of 12 players and to match it with the orchestra violins I (14 players).

The natural volume of violins 1 is -13.5 and the width is 4.04.  There are 14 violins.

If I do a second ensemble with Orchestral Violins 1 (with the semitone and pitch bend tricks),  what value for the natural volume and width should I put?  I want to simulate an ensemble of 12 violins...

Thank you very much for your help!

Vincent

Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 12:59
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

And if I want to simulate 16 violins with the 14,  what values should I put?

Thanks again!

Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 13:38
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

The real question is in fact : how the number of players of a same instrument affect the width and natural volume for the ensemble?

Is there a mathematic formula to do? It would be easy then to add players and have good proportions in width and volume.  

The only problem that would remain is the timbre.  Going to 16 players from 14 players sample,  what would be the best effect to achieve this?  Tone change?

Would the technique of the semitone be sufficient to create a little more fuzz and simulate 2 more players?

Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 14:13
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12393

Hello Vincent, 

As no one is answering your questions, I´ll just state that it is very hard, at least for me, to reliably distinguish 12 from 14 players. 

If you can hear the difference, I´d say: Let your ears decide and choose the values that sound right to you. 

Best, 

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 14:31
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I agree with Paul. You are over thinking this. After all, we're not even talking about a live section. We're talking about a series of static notes glued together with software trickery and a bit of reverb. Just do whatever sounds good to you.

DG

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Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 14:34
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

Thank you very much Paul.  An answer is always very appreciated!  Smile

Maybe like you said the difference is very hard to distinguish...

Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2012 15:00
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

If Dietz see this thread...

There is a thing I don't understand.  Why the Appassionata 14 violas natural volume is at -7.  and Orchestral 14 violins is at -13.5?  That's a huge difference...

Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2012 01:51
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

Another thing to consider Vincent is this - I have sometimes noticed a general change in the timbre based upon using a different size ensemble for second violins.   It is natural to think, maybe use Orchestral for 2nds, or Chamber if you are using Appassionata for firsts.  But it may actually change your overall violin ensemble's timbre.  So even though it may seem wrong in numbers, you may find that using Appassionata Violins on 2nd as well as 1st, by means of a  pitch shift/transposition, will make your violins sound much richer. 

Though on the other hand, in certain pieces, Orchestral or even Chamber can add complexity by virtue of their having a very different timbre from the Appassionata.  So it depends on the piece.   But the exact numbers are absolutely inaudible as was pointed out, and not worth worrying about. 

Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2012 13:17
by Vincent M
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, Posts 205

 Wow,  thank you very much for your help William!   

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