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  4. Time for some possibly dumb, basic questions...

  • Time for some possibly dumb, basic questions...

    J
    J

    I understand (at least I think I do!) the concept of Preserve, Couple, Connect, Raise...

    But then the term Metaframe and Project seem indistinguishable in my mind -they have different names and they live in different parts of the software, but I'm unclear as to how they are different and when I should be applying their attributes to a session. The music I'm working on at the moment uses the same template in each Logic song. So I preserved the Instance and swapped happily between each song, which called upon the preserved instance and it worked fine. I then made a 2nd instance and preserved that with a different name.

    Now I need to bust some jargon - am I now, as far as VE Pro sees it, in the world of a Project? VE Pro allows me, under the File menu, to save the Project, whereas in the Server it refers to Metaframes, not Projects. 

    At the end of the session I would like to save the Logic song. I do this and quit Logic and VE Pro. The preserved instances start up again when I reload VE Pro and Logic's song. OK, all good there. But say I want to open that song on another computer, which I did, it doesn't load the instances correctly, even though they were Preserved. I thought VE Pro would find the data...

    So I said to myself, perhaps it's because I hadn't saved the Project within VE Pro, or saved the Metaframe from within the Server application. So I do both. Is that what I should do?
  • A
    A
    I too would welcome a clear explanation of the data management structures underlying Projects and Metaframes, etc, in order to be confident that I can always reconstitute a song. It has been suggested that I need to run VEPro with Preserve and Decouple in order that there are no random crashes when Pro Tools performs Autosaves. I don't think that the overview section in the manual starting on Page 21 is detailed enough. Kind regards.
  • K
    K

    A Project represents all data in a single instance of VE Pro, be it an instance in the VE Pro Server or standalone. So the mixer, plugins, automation mapping and so forth (everything that is contained in a single instance). It can be saved/loaded from the instance as a *.viframe32/64 file.

    A Metaframe represents all data inside a VE Pro Server. So it contains all instances, including their names and their project data. It can be saved/loaded from the server as a *.mframe32/64 file.

    Preserve means that the instance will exist in the server regardless of being connected to a VE Pro Server Interface plugin. It is denoted by the fact that the instance has a unique name in the server (so it can be identified to connect to).

    Decouple means that the VE Pro Server Interface plugin will never save or load project data. So only the information required to connect to a specific instance is stored (IP address, server architecture (32/64-bit), instance name). This option is only available when connected to a preserved instance.

    In short, when you don't use Decouple, all instance data will be saved with the VE Pro Server Interface plugin (so with the master host project). Otherwise you should make sure to save/load Metaframe files. As a general rule of thumb it's wise to save Metaframe files anyway, just to be prepared in case of technical difficulties.

    Does this clarify things a bit? 
  • J
    J

    Many thanks for your reply, Karel. So a Metaframe is an umbrella if you like to the Project(s). It's the largest possible 'container'. Correct?

    If you save a Metaframe is there any need to save a Project as well - when might that be a good idea?

    Normally when you hit Save, an application overwrites the current version. With the Metaframe and the Project this doesn't happen for me. I get a Save dialogue box come up when I hit Save, as though I meant to choose Save As. Is this a bug or intentional?
  • K
    K

    Correct, in the VE Pro Server, a Metaframe file is the largest container, saving everything in the server to a single file.

    If you save a Metaframe, there is usually no need to save its Projects as well. The point of saving Projects is when working with the standalone version, or when you want to load a template in another instance, and so forth. It just allows you to work as flexible as you so desire.

    Unless you're using a very old version of VE Pro 5, this Save As type behavior is not normal. VE Pro keeps a current file name like most normal applications do, which is also displayed in the window title.
  • J
    J

    Thank you Karel. I am fairly new to VE Pro and am getting on well with it but my methods don't fit the template formula some have recommended. This is because of RAM. I have now 24 Gb but I feel wary of loading any more than about 5500Mb into VE Pro (should I be??). If I load a big template into say 3 instances that may seem convenient but I won't need most of the patches and it feels like an unnecessary load on resources. But perhaps I'm wrong.

    My organisation of instruments in the instances has developed on a 'need it now' basis, ie I might have a flute in Ch 2, a violin section in Ch 3 and a Horn in Ch4, then a wind in Ch5 - you see the almost random structure building up. Each song needs a different set of instruments. So instead or preserving the instances (why? if they are usually different in each song) I resort to saving and loading Metaframes. 

    Hitting Save under File in VE Pro Server doesn't overwrite the file, but performs a Save As function, in that it asks me what I want to call it. Why? It does a Save (overwrite) if I Quit the app and it asks me do I want to save changes to the metaframe before quitting. Confusing to me...

    Often if I quit the server, I get a crash report (the server app crashes on quitting).

    Should this procedure work for me:

    1. Fire up VE Pro.

    2. Boot Logic and open a song with Instances

    3 Load instruments into an instance if it's an empty one or let the saved one load itself.

    4. Edit, add etc instruments in the instance.

    5. Save the Logic song.

    6. Save the Metaframe.

    7. Close the song.

    If I do this with every time, will the right data load into VE Pro every time I load a new Logic song or do I have to push the data to VE Pro using the arrow icon in the instance? I may have things confused, I know. By the way, I have read the manual, even if I may have missed something or not understood...