This is not as good for demo purposes as Guy's but is another example of these cellos. I may need to do another mix though.
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Dimension cellos music
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Hi William,
these dimension strings make such a huge difference to the beauty of an already beautiful track. I listened to the original from your "Shadows of the Soul" recording and the difference is really quite striking. I think MIR has also adding something extra. I still think your original recording is stunning however there is a new vibrancy about the sounds produced by the combination of MIR and the dimension strings. It can only be good news in terms of how this must be inspiring you and all of the others sharing such great works.
Best wishes,
Tom
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Thanks a lot Tom for comparing the two!
Part of the reason I got irritated on the other thread is because I was actually using the Dimension cellos and excited about them as they are really great like the Violins even though the sound is very different due to each player being separate. So I tried to get a sound from the cellos that would be appropriate for this piece which is somewhat darker.
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@William said:
btw I find it peculiar how the people who trash the cellos in the other thread don't respond to this. Why? Because it doesn't support their negative attitude?
Because some of us have other things happening in our lives than the VSL forums?
Anyway, I just listened, and this has a better cello sound than the other demos, for my tastes. But it still sounds a bit awkward and unnatural in the phrasing and timing of it. Certain parts are beautful and totally convincing, and others just sound like a synthetic instrument. This is nothing new -- VSL is just tricky that way. That said, the Dimension cellos sound more hit and miss in that regard than usual.
I'm still a bit confused about how the patches work. From what I understand, you get 8 totally isolated solo patches for each instrument - one for each musician in the section... is that right? If so, how do those solo patches compare to the regular solo strings? Or do I have it wrong? How does it work?
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The Dimension recording technique has each instrument miked separately but playing together in an ensemble. This allows adjustment of each player's tuning, timing, etc., as well as changing the number of players, without the artificial effect of multiple separately recorded solo instruments which never works for creating an ensemble. (It can work for wind duos, trios, or something like a symphonic band wind section, but not strings.) The 6 players in the cellos are doing the exact same articulations, but can be heard separately even though they played simultaneously in the original recordings. They are not really for pure solo use though because a little of the other players' sound can be heard - which is what makes the ensemble sound function.
What makes the Dimension strings so useful is that they not only function alone as a slightly smaller orchestral section, or as a divisi in a large orchestra, but also add on to the other strings on single lines. If you add a solo violin to each of the 1st and 2nd Dimension violins, it becomes like a concert master or section leader and adds even more complexity and richness precisely because they were recorded with different approaches. Likewise with Chamber strings, Orchestral and of course Appassionata which are a big contrast to the Dimension and therefore expand the sound immensely. Often in an orchestral setting one will hear in pianissimo parts individual players standing out, and then in fortissimos they blend more uniformly. The Dimension players have that when put with a big ensemble sound like Appassionata. You never get that with straight ensemble recordings, which are always uniform masses of sound. Another aspect is the movement of sound from note to note. Single ensemble samples were always criticized in the past because they were big blocks of sound, unlike the fluid individual lines of a live ensemble. With Dimension that is now possible either alone, or when added to one of the ensemble libraries.
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I'm still a bit confused about how the patches work. From what I understand, you get 8 totally isolated solo patches for each instrument - one for each musician in the section... is that right? If so, how do those solo patches compare to the regular solo strings? Or do I have it wrong? How does it work?
Yes, you have complete set of individual chairs (6 cellos, 8 violins), 6 solo instruments. You get as well some predefined combinations in sets of desks, which are pre-mixed groups of the individual chairs, for convenience.
How do they compare to the Solo Strings? Some observations: First and foremost, they, DS, don't have quite the long assortment of articulations the Solo libraries have. Second, the tone of the instruments is also noticeably different, and it varies also noticeably (in most cases) from one player to the other. Third, VSL has been very careful to be 100% consistent in the available articulations thus far, same for violins as for cellos, and I presume that will be the case for the violas at least, and don't see why not for the basses. Why is this important? Big time saver for those who fully customize our matrixes.
And to this last point, I personally view this as the real major differentiator between DS and any other library out there to-this-date. The real beauty of DS is in digging into "playing" each and every chair independently. Herb said it in his comments about DS when it was being launched. You can finally get, courtesy of VIP's humanization capabilities, a different execution every time you play (as you would in a real performance). And get a more 'humanized' performance that otherwise you cannot achieve with any other ensemble patch library out there. I think many people praised last year the sound of CS2 for that matter; I found the performance in the samples fairly imperfect, which is part of the magic, but sometimes on the brink of unacceptable due to imperfect tunning and there being nothing you can do to tame it. Well, DS now allows for such variations and variable degree of imperfection, just as in a real performance, but you have 100% of control, so to speak. And this is not only tuning, but also timing, as William pointed out. A real game changer, IMO.
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@William said:
btw I find it peculiar how the people who trash the cellos in the other thread don't respond to this. Why? Because it doesn't support their negative attitude?
No, because rather than risk upsetting people whose talent I respect, or engaging people's defences or getting into a peeing contest, I'll just download them and form my own conclusions. Like all other VSL dimension libraries to date, I'm sure there is a way of blending and configuring them to suit individual tastes.
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Well, I'm intrigued enough that I bought it, so I guess that's a job well done by the demo creators. And I bet I can get better sounds out of it than I've heard so far [;)]
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P Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on
