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DS Trills
Last post Thu, Aug 01 2013 by mazeka, 12 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jul 23 2013 01:23
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

DS Violins are great, but I must say that I miss the half and whole step trills that are in the other VSL string libraries.  I sepnt a lot of time trying to get a good trill in DS.  A similar line in my Orch Violins was a simple matter of a note and a keyswitch.

Having the performance trills is great, but it is a lot of work to program a simple trill.

While it is fantastic to have the Perf Trill, is there a reason that the "automatic" trills were not included?  Or am I overlooking some simple control, perhaps?

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Tue, Jul 23 2013 07:35
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12393

Hi bhartmann, 

Did you check out the trills (and all the other good stuff) that were pre-programmed in the APP sequencer in VI PRO?

Best, 

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Jul 23 2013 10:57
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

Thanks, Paul.  I guess I do not know how to use that.

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Tue, Jul 23 2013 11:26
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12393

Hi, 

No worries, that´s why we made some video tutorials about VI PRO Smile

It´s actually pretty simple: Load one of the "...+Seq" VI PRO Presets and check out the many options! You get very useful trills, mordents, runs, chords.... playing one note triggers the sequence you have loaded. 

Best, 

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jul 24 2013 02:21
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

Paul, Thank you.  Your videos are always world-class.

I did get a bit lost in the two on APP, though.

1.  At first, I thought I understood that you would set a specific key (probably outside the instrument's normal range) to trigger a sequence.  For example, if I wanted a trill on the F# above Middle C, I would set that up in the sequencer and trigger it with some other key, like an F# four octaves above Middle C.  That way, I could use the normal range of the of the instrument as usual.

2.  Later, however, in the video, the demostrator was triggering the same sequence with different keyboard notes to play the sequence in different keys,  At that point I decided I did not understand.

3.  Also, I was very unclear on the part about slots, but we can save that quesiton for another day.

Short question: I want to use all the normal notes within the range of a violin and change articulations by keyswitches, as always; however, during certain passages, I need a trill from the sequencer.  What do I do?

Thanks again.

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Wed, Jul 24 2013 10:44
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12393

Hi, 

Did you actually load a sequence preset file and play with it?

It´s harder to explain than to simply play it.I am having a bit of a hard time understanding your questions right now, to be honest.

Also, if you are using the VI PRO Remote App (with a tablet), this will make understanding the sequencer concept easier.

bhartmann wrote:
Short question: I want to use all the normal
notes within the range of a violin and change articulations by
keyswitches, as always; however, during certain passages, I need a trill from the sequencer.  What do I do?
.

=> Load a matrix containing the sequenced performance trills. The sequencer is activated separately for each matrix.

=> E.g. "31P VI-All_RE_perf-trills"

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jul 25 2013 23:36
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

I created a test project and loaded the matrix you recommended.  If I understand, this means I would need to have two matrices loaded in VI Pro: one for all the "normal" playing and one to use the special sequences (like trills).  That is not as convenient as using the trills in the orchestral strings, but I could make it work.  The question would be whether it made more sense to do that or just write out the trills myself using the standard matrix, and which would sound better.

Oddly, some of the mordents and other sequences had a lot of popping and clicking.  I'm not sure what is going on with those.

I am disappointed that such an otherwise complete collection did not include half and whole step trills.

Thanks.  I do appreciate your help and I love DS.

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Fri, Jul 26 2013 07:13
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12393

Hello again, 

bhartmann wrote:
If I understand, this means I would need to have two matrices loaded in VI Pro: one for all the "normal" playing and one to use the special sequences (like trills).

That´s correct. 

bhartmann wrote:
Oddly, some of the mordents and other sequences had a lot of popping and clicking.  I'm not sure what is going on with those.

Well, you are playing very fast performances with eight players, which puts some strain on the CPU and the streaming. If you are using SSD drives with VI PRO, that shouldn´t be a problem on a reasonably fast CPU. Also, did you try to increase the buffer size of your soundcard?

bhartmann wrote:
I am disappointed that such an otherwise complete collection did not include half and whole step trills.

I am sorry to see you disappointed. 

The concept of Dimension Strings was to have individual performances of each player, which results in around 1.000.000 samples (I know, that sounds like very few samples, but it really is a lot Wink). If we wanted to deliver this monster of a string collection, we had to draw a line somewhere. 

Plus: The Performance Trills work great for trills, runs, mordents, quick movements, and in combination with the APP Sequencer, that additionally gives you control over speed, length and loops of the trills. Adding the possibilities of Humanize Control, we believe this is the best possible way to achieve what has been our goal (individal performances of each player), especially for fast movements.

Best, 

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jul 26 2013 14:24
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170
The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Wed, Jul 31 2013 14:33
by Gusfmm
Joined on Sat, Jul 02 2011, USA, Posts 67

 I actually feel the approach to use the SEQ to imitate Trills is so much more flexible and useful than static prerecorded trills. My suggestion is to spend a bit of time looking into one of the DS trill matrixes and try to understand how it was made as a combination of a rep-interval and the SEQ. Key is to understand how the SEQ works, even at a high level. Their flexibility (tempo-synch'ed, customizable variations, interval independency) is way superior to any static performance. Kudos to VSL for this.

Posted on Thu, Aug 01 2013 02:39
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

First, I think VSL is by far the best product for any orchestral needs, and I tell this to everyone I know and I mention it in the other technical forums (Sonar, etc.).  So, no complaints with Vienna.

Second, it is great that the rep trills option is implemented in DS and I am glad it is working well for some.

Finally, however, I wish that the prerecorded trills were offered in additon.  The ones in the other string collections sound great, and I think they sound much better than the sequenced samples in DS.  Plus, it is a lot more work to get a simple trill without the prerecorded option.  I just can't imagine how it would have hurt to have both options.

The DS samples are already set, however so I don't want to waste everyone's time.  This is just my opinion.  DS is still a fantastic product and all the VSL offerings are clearly best in class for both simplicity and ease of use.

Thanks for the great discussion.

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Thu, Aug 01 2013 03:41
by mazeka
Joined on Thu, Feb 08 2007, USA, Posts 241

I guess DS2 :)

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