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How use expression controller ? which is correct way
Last post Wed, May 17 2017 by jasensmith, 10 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Oct 09 2013 12:35
by Vanhapolle
Joined on Wed, Apr 14 2010, Posts 85
How use expression controller ? which is correct way. i used only velocity cross fade now but i want know how i use them combination any tips to getter better results.
Posted on Thu, Oct 10 2013 15:43
by vyv
Joined on Sun, Dec 02 2012, Bristol, UK, Posts 19

I'd be interested to know the answer too. I guess I'm now on the steepest part of the VI learning curve, every time I load up a project I seem to have to start all over again creating expression maps and choosing patches, leaving any vestiges of musical inspiration way behind.

I think there are at least 3 expression parameters you might want to use:

 - Velocity xFade (which I like to map to cc1 because every other library uses cc1 for increased 'intensity'). NB you get phasing artefacts with woodwind solos but it's great with strings;

- I recently stumbled on the idea of using 'slots', most usefully to add staccato artic. in slot B to legato sounds. you increase a cc (cc3 perhaps) to give the sounds more attack. I don't use xfade, just the normal slot control so you get more staccato as you ride the controller

- lastly 'Expression' which as far as I can see is just volume. Can anyone say if it's anything more than volume???

Vyv Hope-Scott

Cubase Pro 9
Win 10 Pro 64-bit
ASUS Z97A / 16 Gb RAM
Posted on Thu, Oct 10 2013 16:30
by Pyre
Joined on Thu, Jun 28 2012, Posts 143
There are two volume controls, CC#7 and CC#11 (named Master Volume and Expression, respectively). The idea is that expression is used for lots of changes of volume within a phrase, such as swells, while master volume is used for the part as a whole, or at least in fairly large sections. That way if one instrument needs to be louder, the master volume can simply be tweaked, instead of having to redo every little detail.

Velocity crossfade is incredibly useful, but not suitable for every situation. Because it crossfades between different layers, it blurs the transition boundaries between timbres as related to dynamics. This is particularly obvious with horns, where the quiet/middle layers are more distant and mournful, and the louder layers are brighter and more metallic. So for a gradual crescendo, velocity crossfade is fantastic, or for a series of notes growing progressively louder. However, this may not be appropriate if you wish to keep a similar timbre throughout a phrase, where altering the individual note velocity will be more effective for accenting some notes without changing the sound too much.

Slot crossfade is useful for mimicking a faster attack on a sustained note, but it takes a bit of practice to get it sounding convincing. I found the crossfading option to be more natural than using slot crossfade to alter the B slot volume, but if the latter is working for you, fantastic.


Pyre
AMD Phenom 9850 Black Edition Quad-Core Processor (Water-Cooled)
8GB RAM
2x 1TB hard drives for libraries and audio, 1x 128GB SSD for OS
Presonus Firestudio 26-in 26-out firewire interface
Korg Triton Extreme-76 master keyboard, M-Audio MidAir-25 lap keyboard.

Windows 7 Ultimate, Cubase 4
VSL Symphonic Cube (standard library), Vienna Choir (standard library) and download instruments Recorders, Harpsichord, Basset Horn and Contrabass Clarinet.
Vienna Instruments Pro 2.4.13260 and Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.4.14074
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All 64-bit.
Posted on Wed, Oct 23 2013 11:53
by crusoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 26 2009, Posts 131
The question about expression is indeed interesting, I join it. Samplers (VI is essentially a sampler) may implement expression change differently. I think it's a combination of several parameters, like LP/HP filter amount, volume, and possibly some others, maybe even specific for every instrument. You can perform a small experiment to test my theory - draw a curve over a long sustain note in the volume controller, and then the same curve in the expression controller. Compare the results - to me the latter sounds more realistic (at least with string sections).
Posted on Thu, Oct 24 2013 13:04
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

Providing CC7 (Volume) and CC11 (Expression) are both set to control volume and nothing else, there should be no difference between them - both simply generate 128 MIDI values. If you hear a difference, it could be that one or other of them is mapped to an additional parameter within the instrument, or that the sequencer is doing something extra with the control data.

Posted on Thu, Oct 24 2013 18:14
by crusoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 26 2009, Posts 131
Thanks Conquer, I think you are right.
Posted on Fri, Oct 25 2013 11:42
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1726
Vanhapolle wrote:
How use expression controller ? which is correct way. i used only velocity cross fade now but i want know how i use them combination any tips to getter better results.

Here are two links:

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-3/index.php see 24a) ... 24c)

and

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-4/index.php

I wish a lot of success

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, May 16 2017 21:30
by americo
Joined on Thu, May 07 2015, Posts 10

can I trigger two articulations at the same time?

Posted on Wed, May 17 2017 08:52
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89
In the past I used expression a lot for the begin and the ending of phrases, in combo with the velocty xfade. But now I really prefer to set the Dynamic range of the instrument close to the maximum and using just velocity xfade. In this way I can achieve "dal niente" and "al niente" with a single parameter.
I also would like to see a controller using some filtering to simulate better especially the pp layers. Or even better I would like to have more dynamic layers :)
Posted on Wed, May 17 2017 11:02
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1562

Originally Posted by: americo Go to Quoted Post

can I trigger two articulations at the same time?

Yes.  If my recollection serves me right if you have multiple VI instances with different patches loaded and your MIDI is set to OMNI on all the instances.  When you press a key on the keyboard all of the patches will play at once assuming you are playing in the correct range.  I'm sure there is an easier way of doing this but I don't remember how off the top of my head.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
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