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VSL NOW
Last post Mon, Dec 02 2013 by Dietz, 9 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Nov 12 2013 02:37
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

I am right now re-visiting a piece I did with samples several years ago - a symphony - with the new VSL instruments and MIR.  I am using the new humanize functions, as well as the new instruments such as Dimension Strings and MIR. Also, I am attempting  a complex sound akin to live ensembles with many layered samples each with different humanize settings in both the VE file and within the sequencer file.  It seems to be possible now to create far more of this complexity because of the sheer number of samples as well as the controls that exist in the Vienna Ensemble settings.  

This seems to be the way to create a natural musical sound more than any other.  To create irregulairty, complexity, and layers of sound.  the most artificial MIDI performances are always the ones that are too perfect and too simple. So the question is how far can this complex imperfection be pushed.  Right now I have humanize general settings at max, but turn down the delay and tuning somewhat.  I am very interested in what other people have experimented with in this. Not just using some humanize, but what is the ultimate humanizing?  On my sequencer files I have several layers of strings for each different group each with their own humanize differences, and then within those sequencer performances the VE does its own humanizing on top of that.   This kind of layering is what is needed to create a truly complex musical sound. 

Posted on Fri, Nov 22 2013 09:48
by Arbee
Joined on Sun, Sep 18 2011, Posts 78

I like to come here once in a while and just vent my praise for VSL, particularly after being on other forums and hearing the "latest and greatest" from competing products. I may indeed be deluded but, really, I still haven't heard anything that compares or that delivers even close to the same astonishing flexiblity. OK, feel better now....thanks.

Posted on Sat, Nov 23 2013 03:07
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

 Yes that is probably what I am doing also.   

Posted on Sat, Nov 30 2013 16:57
by GoranTch
Joined on Tue, Mar 14 2006, Berlin, Germany, Posts 528
Arbee wrote:

"... particularly after being on other forums and hearing the "latest and greatest" from competing products. I may indeed be deluded but, really, I still haven't heard anything that compares or that delivers even close to the same astonishing flexiblity."

...wonder why does this ring so familiar...Cool ..can only second you there...

Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 01:23
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

 One of the things I notice is that there is an entire group of composers/performers who are using VSL for purely artistic reasons. Of course many people use it for pure commercial stuff, just like the other libraries. Hollywood Strings, LASS, EWQLSO, etc. etc.   But why do people use VSL for "art" ?  To me it seems to encourage one to express musical ideas.   Other sample libraries may sound nice, but somehow they don't have that quality of near-maniacal detail and methodical coverage that VSL has developed which reminds me of Werner von Braun in the Apollo program.  He was an obsessive genius who created the most thorough, multiply backed up technology ever created to do the single most difficult feat in human history.  Actually sampling a symphony orchestra on a truly artisic rather than exploitative basis is almost as extreme an undertaking (though not as dangerous). 

Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 06:20
by Arbee
Joined on Sun, Sep 18 2011, Posts 78
goran_tsch wrote:
Arbee wrote:

"... particularly after being on other forums and hearing the "latest and greatest" from competing products. I may indeed be deluded but, really, I still haven't heard anything that compares or that delivers even close to the same astonishing flexiblity."

...wonder why does this ring so familiar...Cool ..can only second you there...

How often we hear from fans of other developers "xx is about to be, or has just been, released and it is hands down the greatest thing since oxygen, omg, omg!!" - and then later - "I wish the legato was better, I wish there were more articulations, I wish it was more even in volume, I wish, I wish...." Crying. I prefer "Do it once, do it right, and probably even - do it quietly and let it speak for itself". I don't have the time or the inclination to be a paying beta tester/customer or the victim of clever social media marketing strategy. I'll also put Spectrasonics in the same category as VSL - all class! Thank you, thank you - OK, just had to get that off my chest Big Smile

Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 18:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

That is true.  You can see that "so it once do it right" in VSL in the fact that the very first instruments they did are still used as much as the latest ones.  This all comes from a methodical approach to sampling, created in the 1st Edition, that was based on music, analyzing what are the fundamental components of musical performance and how can those be recorded, organized and presented for use.  The development of the Vienna Ensemble software added immensely to the efficiency of that use, since the 1st Edition was still within Gigastudio which was often extremely awkward or unreliable.  So the proprietary engine that VSL developed was crucial, and with the addition of MIR - also presented to the user as musical values of players in a concert setting instead of engineering possibilities - the system has evolved exponentially.  But all that evolution is founded on the solid musical values they incorporated at the beginning.

Posted on Mon, Dec 02 2013 10:08
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582
William wrote:

But why do people use VSL for "art" ?  To me it seems to encourage one to express musical ideas.   Other sample libraries may sound nice, but somehow they don't have that quality of near-maniacal detail and methodical coverage that VSL has developed which reminds me of Werner von Braun in the Apollo program.  He was an obsessive genius who created the most thorough, multiply backed up technology ever created to do the single most difficult feat in human history.  Actually sampling a symphony orchestra on a truly artisic rather than exploitative basis is almost as extreme an undertaking (though not as dangerous). 

 

I really think the silent stage makes all the difference with regard to VSL samples.  It's as if you using a truly raw sound; like a raw piece of meat, if you will.  Now you can marinate, smoke and cook that meat then season it until you find just the right flavor. 

With other libraries, the meat is already cooked.  All you can do is season it.

Man! I'm hungryPizzaCakeDrinksBeer


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Mon, Dec 02 2013 13:01
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8156
jasensmith wrote:
[...]

I really think the silent stage makes all the difference with regard to VSL samples.  It's as if you using a truly raw sound; like a raw piece of meat, if you will.  Now you can marinate, smoke and cook that meat then season it until you find just the right flavor. 

[...]

:-D ...  it could be that VSL's marketing people would use different words, but in the end, what you described was pretty much the basic idea.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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