New Composition for feedback

[mcelvogue]

Hi,

I've decided to park where I'm at with this latest composition and I'd appreciate any feedback if you have the time!

This is a learning exercise for me and a development of an Irish reel composed by Eddie Kelly arranged for chamber strings and woodwinds - flute/oboe/clarinet/bassoon).

The original 4/4 binary form dance piece presented here in the first 1min 30 seconds is usually played much faster and by solo instrument (reference the second tune played in this video - from 1:07 until 2:56).

The section from 1:30 to 2:12 is intended to be a struggle to move to the new melody in 6/8 timing and I’ve tried to represent this by the offset and overlapping conversation between the winds and strings before presenting a hopefully coherent new melody in B part variation at 2:11. The original A and B part melodies are subsequently re-interpreted as my own personal exercise in musical development of a "traditional" irish dance piece into something different.

Starting from 3:46 I have taken the first few bars of the first variation of the A part and departed harmonically from the original melody with two further variations leading into what I imagined to be a bridge section to reset the listener in preparation for the variations on the B part (from 5:26) which again deviate harmonically (probably only slightly) until the original variation is brought back into focus at 6:41 before modulating back to the tonic key of the piece and closing with a re-presentation of the original A and B part variations.

The dialogue between the strings and winds is continued throughout the piece as they each present their variations on the melodic material supported by the other until the last presentation of the original variation where both strings and winds play mostly in unison which I hope doesn't distract too much and isn't too simplistic an approach.

I hope by adding my intent and understanding of what I was aiming for it may be easier to listen/critique. If it helps to see the score of the music I can also send this on via email if anyone is interested.

https://soundcloud.com/mcelvogue/eddiekellys-work-in-progress

Regards,

Tom

[Stephane Collin]

Hi Tom.

It is always nice to hear the work of a composer, always exciting to enter someone's inner world.

I have a question about what I heard.

I will focus on the first minutes, with strings only.

What strikes me at first listening is that every notes of every instrument sound the same, as if you took one preset and play along like a keyboard player would, but not thinking of how a string player would play it.  Also, all the notes sound at the same level, whithout any dynamics.  Is this on purpose ?  It does induce some kind of mechanical mood, which can be great, but certainly not realistic.  Not that realistic is mandatory, mind you, but if it happened that this was not your intention, I could have some advise for you.

Best regards.

 

Stephane.

[mcelvogue]

Hi Stephane,

     I really struggle with the dynamics on strings in particular and whilst I had tried a number of ways to achieve what I was searching for in the later sections I must admit I probably negelected this opening presentation of the melody. I know my limitations in terms of realism and whilst I can only aspire to some of the standards demonstrated by other composers/musicians, at the moment my priority has been to improve my writing, orchestration and understanding of tonal harmony.

I'd rather not have the mechanical mood as you described it if at all possible but I must admit I was not sure how/where to start on this first section and therefore probably spent more effort on the middle and later sections of the piece where I was presenting my own interepretations rather than presenting a melody written by another composer which was learned by ear rather than from notation where dynamic markings would be a rarity in this genre of music.

Therefore, all help and suggestions for improving the first section in terms of dynamics would be most welcome.

Regards,

      Tom

[Stephane Collin]

Hi Tom.

You should find a way to control velocity x-fade, and use it to sculpt your phrases.  You'll have to activate it in the Vienna Instrument plugin, and then choose in your DAW the matching controller to control it.  Do not use the volume control for this purpose, it is not realistic.  Use the volume for setting the instrument right in the mix, but after you have programmed the velocity x-fades.

There are many more steps towards realism, but this is certainly the first and necessary one.

Hope this helps.

Best regards.

Stephane.

[Stephane Collin]

I forgot to mention :

use the legato patch for legato phrases.

[mcelvogue]

Thanks Stephane,

I'll start re-working this tonight! Your question really made my heart sink as I had simply neglected this part (and a few others) in preference of working on some of my variations whereas it's actually a vital part of the composition as many listeners will simply turn away before the end of the opening presentation given the poor dynamics and "mechnical" strings which were absolutely not intentional.

Thanks for the advice and taking the time to listen.

Regards,

      Tom

[Stephane Collin]

Hi Tom.

It is my experience that you can't separate the two aspects : good text / good interpretation.  The magic of music requires both.  Imagine truly nice poetry declaimed with a harelip (no offense intended, of course), or a wonderful actress with silky voice mesmerizing a culinary receipt.  😕

You'll probably see that enhancing the rendering (including the mix) will give you further ideas for the composition.  And a good composer has always the instrument he writes for in mind.  Ok, Bach excepted (but not sure of that).

[MassMover]

The string passage sounds muffled in some places, and that is due to an overpronounced bass-register. In general the distance between bass and tenor voice should be the largest one, the smallest between the top two voices.

In many places your melody stands alone against rather agitated movement in the low voices. Maybe it is because the 2nd violin is to soft in the mix. Try to think of the 2nd violin as a kind of support of the melody, so that the two upper voices would function alone without the lower strings.

[mcelvogue]

Hi MassMover,

This may sound dumb but I hadn't really considered this relationship between the first and second violins in the way you have suggested. I'll certainly review how I've written the string parts to see if I can acheive greater clarity.

Thanks for listening and for the feedback.

Regards,

      Tom

[mcelvogue]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback so far. I think I may have realised what/where I have been going wrong thanks to the two repsondants so I need to carry out some testing to prove/disprove what I think I've done incorrectly. I think it is a combination of not using velocity cross fades correctly and also using vibrato patches when I needed a mix of non-vibrato and vibrato patches - especially on the strings. It may take me a while to re-edit so thanks again for the advice.

Regards,

     Tom

[mcelvogue]

Hi Stephane, MassMover,

taking both your suggestions and advice I've rewritten and reworked the first 1:30 seconds so far and uploaded again. Thank you for your assistance and all I can say is that you were both right! I've tried to provide more separation between the 1st and second violin and also between the 2nd Violin and viola in terms of writing. I didn't get a chance to write in the double bass however I'm not convinced it needs a double bass at the start but I could be wrong. I haven't had time to work on the remainder of the composition yet so I've left from 1 minute 30 as it was originally however I will complete this re-write over the coming weeks/months as I found the learning process fantastic for the first section.

Thanks you again,

Tom