What will help me master technique used to produce the violin articulation located at the time 2:09 in the following video:
Is there a name for this?
Thanks in advance.
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Violin Ensemble Articulation - How do I make this sound?
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I don't know if you can get that exact sound, but it sounds like a combination of tremelo, portamento, and sul ponticello.
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That's one of those instrumental effects that can't really be programmed convincingly and just sound better if you have them available pre-recorded, just like trills, flutter crescendos etc.
That's acutally something that would be on my personal VSL wishlist: a little "orchestral effects" collection for cinematic and media music stuff. It's of course by no means the most innovative sample library idea out there, but just something that's kind of still missing in the palette. Especially since the currently available options from other manufacturers - like 8Dio Cage or Spitfire Albion IV - are way too overkill for my personal needs, both in terms of pricing and sample content/storage space requirement.
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Jimmy,
Thanks for the reply. Yes...it seems that you are absolutely right. I discovered a very informative website by a gentleman neamed Beat Kaufman. I am very new to the VSL community and I am just now finding his name on many pages in the forum. I actually emailed him and got a response back. In short, he said that I should look into something called "fast repetitions 180" or similar, and that the repetitions in the video are played with a special technique of the bow. If successful, the sound will be...only close. The slide part, from what I understand, could feasibly be accomplished by pitch modulation but according to Beat, I would have to go through more than an octave.
Now, unless I heard incorrectly, it seems that there are several starting points of tremelo'd strings that eventually fade out after an octave of "pitch bending?" when another instance starts about the key where the last instance ended so as to avoid stretching one note through 3+ octaves, which would be a musically articulative felony - if there is such a thing.
I will experiment with Ghotstrat's suggestion of tremelo, portamento, and sul ponticello. I just recently purchased the SE Bundle and Pro2, so I think I have the suggested articulations.
Like I mentioned to Beat, I am determined to make that sound with VSL and if I come up with anything worthy enough to share, I'll be sure to do so.
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Here's an update I wanted to share from a professional violinist in the field.
"Just play Ponticello (very close to, almost on, the bridge, without too much pressure) while doing a glissando. The sound they get on "Fast Five" of course is more effective with a large string section".
So, taking it all into account and of course, experiment, let's see what happens.
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Everyone is right about the articulations used. and as pointed out from you guys and others in the field, the sound is a pre-recorded orchestral effect. Basically, the immediate and direct solution that can produce this sound right out of the box is Jimmy's suggestion of the Spitfire ALBION IV - UIST.
The sample is called the Quarter Note Glissando Up located at 10:57 in the following video produced by the guys at Spitfire:
Yes, their library contains variations of that sound and you have dynamic variation control...kind of like what the VI Pro 2 player does with the articualtion crossfade feature. So, I will try to see if I can produce something similar with my VSL library. If anyone else is interested in the dynamic variation control I speak of, you can listen to that from 8:59 all the way to 10:09 in this same video.
Thank you everyone for your input. You have been a tremendous resource.
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This can sort of be done using VSL, but it quite labour intensive and involves converting to audio, time stretching and layering.
- Use a glissando patch changing note as soon as it reaches the end of the sample until you have the range you want.
- Mixdown to audio and timestretch until it is the correct length
- Layer with a tremolo sample playing a chromatic scale, but overlapping slightly.
- Adjust balance to taste.
DG
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DG,
You're absolutely brilliant! I'm missing the glissando sample. Apparently, I would have to purchase the Orchestral Strings 1 to get this accomplished. According to Paul, on the following link, he responds to someone probably going down the same path.
http://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t28388-Strings-Glissando#post184157
I tried to use pitch bending to simulate the glissando but it's not coming out right and sounds like a pitch bend, which is what I'm trying to avoid; unless the glissando is really fast and not slow and haunting like in the video mentioned in my initial post. I have not really heard what Vienna's Long Glissando sounds like, if there is such a thing, but as soon as I can lock down an example of that particular sample that I can work with, then I will go from there.
In terms of time vs money, I may as well buy the Albion IV sample library that was suggested a few posts up since it's about the same price as Vienna's Orchestral Strings. Out of the box, it's a done deal and I would save the time and hassle of trying to mimic something that is already done professionally by a real orchestra; not to mention the massive collection of other Orchestral FX included that completes any collection needing that cinematic punch.
All things considered...it doesn't hurt having both.
Thank you for the reply!
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The most important thing is, that not all violinists of the section do the glissando in exact the same way - the fact that the patch is called 1/4tone gliss probably means, that they start at a very close cluster and then move up individually.
When you try to simulate this, you should use a small section (chamber Strings) and add 2 or 3 Solo Violins starting from a minor second above/below. Additionally you should edit them differently, maybe one going up the glissando a little bit slower, falling behind the "main" section and then catching up.
There is no recorded portamento with tremolo and/or ponticello, and i think the latter two are the more important aspect of the overall sound. So I would use sul pont. or tremolo ponticello and somply play the chromatic scale. If You do that with several solo violins the missing portamento transition gets blurred.
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Awesome analysis. I starting experimenting with your suggestion earlier today and I think that was the secret ingredient as it definitely adds that element of authenticity that I was looking for and haven't been achieving. I still think I'm going toward a sampled library of Orchestral FX that I mentioned before. The time and hassle of making a Vienna-based prchestral efffect is still only...just close to the real thing.
Frankly, I still need to hear the Vienna glissando sample from their collections. Maybe I'll ask someone "up there" to send me a sample sound so I can see if it's sufficient enough to work with. On a side note, I'm having issues trying to get automation of certain controls in the Esemble window with Ableton Live. Fortunately, the Ableton community has a ridiculous library of Max 4 Live plugins that make automation a feasibly accomplishable thing because trying to get this Orchestral String FX requires some automation and I just now figured out how to assign CC#'s to knobs to facilitate workflow without using Ensemble Pro. Actually, having Pro would make assiging CC to knobs easier but the number of knobs run out with multiple tracks and matrices loaded per track. Anyway...that's another topic but it's related since I need automation to get this effect with the Vienna samples I have.
Back on topic, with your tip on the players playing different notes gliding up seems to be the secret touch that makes that sound possible. Even without the glissando, you're on to it! Anyone reading this...try out MassMover's suggestion. Sounds cool huh?
Thank you so much. This tip is a game changer!
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P Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on