Hi,

For some months, I've been working to a virtual version of Ligeti's Atmosphères. Since the strings orchestra is made of solo strings, always con sordino and mostly playing very long notes, I decided to use Xsample instead of VSL SE for them. Xsample has looped solo strings sustain notes, allowing for long notes, while VSL (SE or not) doesn't have them.

However, with the arrival of VSL Solo Strings I (ordinario) and II (con sordino), I decided to try VSL for strings. I will try to replace long notes with legato short notes, lasting as long as a single bowing. Ligeti asks for irregular bowing, so this would be more respectful of the original score than the looped strings.

However, Solo Strings II lacks several of the needed articulations. For example, missing are the muted versions of sul tasto (flautando), sul ponticello, molto vibrato/espressivo.

I wonder if these particular articulations have to be absolutely played with muted strings, or their particular sound can be 'faked' with the non-muted versions of Solo Strings I. Can you clearly recognize the muted flautando or sul ponticello sound from the non-muted version?

(Actually, I wonder how you can play sul ponticello when the mute is inserted at the ponticello. Do you know how this is meant to be played?) 

Paolo

Hi Steffen,

Thank you very much for your considerations. I think to understand that Ligeti wanted the most transparent and delicate sound at the beginning of Atmosphères, so he asked for a combination of all the techniques allowing for it (sordino, sul tasto, dolcissimo, pp going to al niente). I believe using the sul tasto articulation contained in Solo Strings I, and keeping the dynamics a bit softer, can be enough to achieve that effect. I was thinking to add the filter included in VI, but the only thing that it seems to do is to cut the higher frequencies, and as you suggest it is not the expected result.

As for copyrights, this is something I’ve been asking myself often, and maybe you can help me on this matter. Can, presenting a virtual rendition of a copyrighted work in a forum, be considered copyright infringement, as if you were playing it in a theatre?

In the USA, the Copyright Act allows “fair use” of a copyrighted work “for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use, scholarship, or research)”.

In my country (Italy), the current law (dated 1993, but based on a law of 1941), allows for free use of a copyrighted work for “teaching, studying or researching, including practicing and essays of amateur level music activities” (my translation), and in general in any case of non-profit use.

Still in my country, based on my experience as an amateur musician and a theatre manager, I guess this type of activity would not be approved by the national copyright agency (SIAE), usually acting according to their own rules, notwithstanding the law. For example, playing Schubert would still be only possible after their authorization, and paying the rights (formally, to the editors of the used score).

I wonder how this works in Austria, whose laws should be the ones to be considered when posting something in this forum. I’m personally ready to retire any example might I post, in case the owners of the rights ask for it. I would also comply with the law, in the hope that the “fair use” mentioned above is a common rule.

Cheers,
Paolo

It's much simpler:

In Germany the GEMA quite recently closed a deal with YouTube that allows YouTube and its users to use all GEMA material in videos uploaded to their platform. YouTube is paying an undisclosed annual lump sum to GEMA. Also, GEMA represents not only the rights of their german members, but those of the members of most foreign copyright societies, aka: worldwide, too.

Furthermore, german Urheberrecht says if a musical work has been performed in public, the copyright holder has no right to prohibit any further performance of the same work in its original form, as long as he gets paid the royalties for the performance.

So, given that Ligeti was a member of the austrian AKM, in Germany I would simply upload the rendition to YouTube, as YouTube is paying for the right to use his works.

As the GEMA was the last copyright society in the world to finish a deal with YouTube, I would strongly assume that the societies in Austria, the USA or Italy have similar deals.

In Belgium, the author's rights are pretty similar to the German ones. Only, the financial benefits are distributed in a very odd way. The author's rights society owns all the rights and pays a small part of the revenues to the composer (performer, editor...) To illustrate this: From last years performance of two symphonic works of mine (for orchestra and choir), I initally received 0.003 euro. That is not so unusual, because they don't do any effort to verify who is who. (Who is the composer, text writer, orchestrator, editor, producer...). They assumed that everything in these compositions was public domain (free to use and perform without any duties), which was not at all the case. I was the composer and orchestrator, the score was not published nor recorded. Which means that every right was mine. I had a lot of trouble to convince the SABAM people, but finally they agreed and sent my some extra 30 euro. That is rather normal, but famous artists receive a lot more for such a performance...

Conclusion: I'm not happy with the way they work in my country, but I have no other option.

Max