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CFX Release Sample Adjustment
Last post Mon, May 21 2018 by Pbest, 8 replies.
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Posted on Thu, May 17 2018 15:55
by karvala
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, UK, Posts 23

This is a very well sampled and nice-sounding instrument you have here.  The various updates to the software to address particular issues have also been very welcome, and it's great to a see a developer engaged with the community like this.

The updated have, perhaps inadvertently, created one issue for me, which is a problem with the room resonance in the release samples.  The latest update - 1.0.582, which solves some important issues - and the previous update - 1.0.530 - have seen an adjustment of the release samples, in which the room resonance has become more prominent.  I can understand the desire to make the piano as resonant as possible on a single-note or single-chord basis - it sounds luxurious - but it is a bit of a problem for daily playing where notes are being smudged into each other much more than they used to.

To give a very simple example of the issue, I recorded just a Bach fugue subject and two chords in two versions - 1.0.464 (which comes first in each comparison in the example) and 1.0.582 (which comes second).  The first fugue subject is relatively clean, while in the second the notes are slightly smudged.  The chords show the slightly increased resonance in the 1.0.582 version.  Just to be clear: these were created from the *same midi file* and used the *same custom VSL profile*, so this is not a case of playing differently in the two versions or using different mic settings; this is entirely down to different release sample behaviour.  The example is at: https://tinyurl.com/ybqdgtw4"> https://tinyurl.com/ybqdgtw4.

As there are already many good ways increase to increase the resonance of the sound in the instrument (8 out of the 10 mics in the full version, or 4 out of 5 mics in the standard version, do this, as does the very good builtin reverb), I would suggest one of two solutions to this issue:-

1. There should be an adjustment control for the release sample resonance; this would be the ideal solution, as it would allow players to customise it exactly as they wanted.  Most piano VSTs have something like this, and this instrument clearly has separate release samples and they are clearly adjustable across the different releases, so I'm hoping this will be possible, but only the developers will know how difficult this is.

2. If 1. is really not possible, then release an updated version incorporating all the latest fixed, but with the samples at least as dry as they were in 1.0.464, which otherwise remains the version that I will have to use because of the playability issues of the longer/louder room resonance.

Thanks!

Posted on Thu, May 17 2018 19:26
by asdf123
Joined on Thu, Nov 02 2017, Posts 3

This is an impressive piano VI; nice job. Glad to see the developers so proactive to community comments and suggestions. A lot of value added to an already very nice sampled instrument.

Agree that the karvala fugue sounds a bit smeared and would be distracting to play.

Posted on Thu, May 17 2018 20:39
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 258

I think I disagree with the initial post.

In the previous builds, there was definitely an issue with the shorter release samples when playing stacatto passages -- sounded clipped off a bit.  I've been on a different job that doesn't use piano this week, but in my 15mins of playing on the latest build, it is better by an order of magnitude, especially in the release samples.  

It might require some player adjustment since it behaves differently now, like one would in a piano store.

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Fri, May 18 2018 19:05
by karvala
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, UK, Posts 23

Ah, if only it were that easy.  Player adjustment can get you so far, but this is hard-limited by the sound in this instance.  Even playing that fugue subject (which is just one example; I could give you dozens) staccato, the room resonance overlap is strong enough to smudge it.  There is no way to maintain the tempo and avoid the smudging; it's not a playing issue.

I fully appreciate that some people will prefer the new sample length; I didn't feel the previous samples were clipped myself but opinions will differ on this.  That's exactly why an adjustment control would be ideal - then each player can customise it to their own taste, and indeed to the requirements of different repertoire even. 

Posted on Fri, May 18 2018 21:21
by SORROW27
Joined on Fri, Aug 24 2012, Posts 4

I also returned to Synchron Piano 1.0.464, the issue exposed by Karvala is completely real. My warm-up piece for piano playing is Bach, Prelude N 2 Well-Tempered Clavier, Book 1 BWV 847. In this piece the issue is very strong and problematic, and really, it isn´t a Player problem, so I hope Paul and his team solves it quicky.

Kind regards!!


 
Posted on Sun, May 20 2018 07:31
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 258

Wait a min.. I think it's the opposite.  I think something is happening to the transient.  (See attachment)

EDIT: Recorded with Close Mic 1 only.

File Attachment(s):
TransientU0020CutU0020offU003F.wav (2,591kb) downloaded 27 time(s).

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2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Sun, May 20 2018 14:18
by Pbest
Joined on Tue, Apr 03 2018, Posts 23

I also found the same problem today.

When I play any passage without pedalling, this issue become strong.

It is the same one that stephan attached.

I am not professional so I don't know what this problem comes from. I hope it works out well.

Posted on Mon, May 21 2018 02:47
by Pbest
Joined on Tue, Apr 03 2018, Posts 23

In more detail,

Even though I was playing without pedals, I usually didn't feel the problem well, but I felt the problem rises at a certain range of the notes, which are approximately C3~B3. The other range seems to be fine.

There is the possibility that the range is not accurate, but I feel that range only have release (or transient) issue.

Generally, there is no big strain to play, but it is pretty annoying to play the song which uses that range frequently with less pedalling.

The range of a sample attached by stephan appears to be in that range.

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