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Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2018 20:06
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

The next step of my little Exploration of Synchron-Libraries combine all available real Synchron-Libraries: Synchron Strings I, Synchron Percussion, the Synchron-Piano Yamaha CFX (except the Synchron-FX-Strings). It is another Composition by A.Casella

Concerto for Strings, Percussion and Piano op.69

(composed for 'Paul Sacher ed alla "Basler Kammerorchester"' like Bartoks Divertimento for Strings or Bartoks Sonata for two Pianos and Percussion - which I already produced both with Synchron-Libraries )

While Paul Sacher even supported Richard Strauss after WW.II Paul Sacher (who himself studied with Paul Weingartner), was known for his enthousiasm for 20th century modernism, initiating Works by Anton Webern Strawinsky, E.Carter, Honegger, Ibert, Lutoslawski and many other important 20th century composers and Sacher was likewise known for his modernist scepticism against late romantic stereotypes.

Therefore it seem to me not that surprising, that compared to Casellas Paganinia op.65 this Concerto op 69 shows some more or less "anti-romanic" aspects

  • the often harsch rythms as we know f.i. from Bartok 
  • some neobaroque aspects
    • Concertoform
    • reduced Stringorchestra instead of large romantic Orchestra,
    • Counterpoint,
    • Piano as kind of accompagning Pseudo Continuo-Cembalo
  • moderate adaption of dodecaphonic technic which meanwhile is never aplied not dogmatical strict in any way but provides still with enough examples of often very melodic lyric twelftone themes using all notes of the chromatic scale (prefiguring perhaps a bit Dallapiccola's very italian very melodic appoach to the twelvetone-music.)

Sorry for being that detailed about this seldom heard and seldom played in my humble opinion still very interesting unique modern 20th century Concerto, which provides beside very powerfull rare music a great occasion to combine all original Synchron-Libraries (excapt the FX-Strings and with the addition of VSL-Solostrings) in one project.

I hope you like it

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 08:26
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Allegreo alquanto:

Piano sounds pretty good, if a bit undynamic and mechanical in places. (1:40 e.g.).

Strings are lacking stereo field, I think this is mainly a reverb issue - the reverb is very bad and 1-dimensional, so it doesn't spread out the material in the stereo field very well.

Strings also lack some EQ, especially violins sound pretty harsh in places. And they lack air. Violas generally sound weird but that one I will attribute to the sound of Sychron.

Sarabande grave:

Timpani sounds like it was recorded in a bed room, lacking any sense of space and scope. Generally all string lines sound very mechanical.

The solo violin sounds like it was recorded 300 meters away from the rest of the orchestra, lacking any air and frankly sounds horrible - hardly qualifying for sounding like a solo string. Needs to be placed and EQ'ed totally different, but that probably won't save the sound and bad legato that seems inherint to it (note, I don't own the solo strings so I can't really comment on how they COULD sound), but who knows.

Piano sounds pretty good again.

The little percussion there is also sounds (like timpani) too close and without any sense of space.

Violins at 3:30 onwards... wow.... sounds very mechanical, MIDI-like with no expression or feel whatsoever. This can be said about most of the legato strings actually.

Again violas sound metallic, mono-like and strange. Sounds like something out of a 1980's GM-synth. To some degree the same goes for cellos mostly.

Finale allegro:

Percussion again needs to be placed further away, snare drums sound like they are right next to you. Cellos and basses in the beginning sound decent enough, but violas coming in and violins playing without any expression or musicality in them again ruins it. They are also just abrubtly cut off in many places before proceeding to the next phrase.

Again the solo violin sounds almost like a joke. Is it a violin morphed with a soprano singer and a theremin or what?

Basically the same criticism as with the two first pieces apply: Lots of shortcomings in mix + MIDI execution.

Piano is the positive highlight again. Strings are a low. I certainly think they can be bettered with the right craftmanship and knowledge about how to get the best out of samples applied to them, but I also think they show their inherent shortcomings.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 09:19
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Thank you Simon for listening a so long piece of music just for posting like you have done above.

Honestly I personally would have been much more interested if you would have spent the same time to show us what incredible things you are able to, i think that would have be much more inspiring for all of us. As I personally think a real musician would ever prefer to convince with his music than to only try to reduce others who are productive.

Here is just another perhaps more constructive Quotation from real musicians to think about and to make you understand, why you will scarcly never read anything like your post from my side here (unless perhaps if someone has explicitly asked for):

Originally Posted by: T. Carreñ Go to Quoted Post

"Never be afraid to play before a real artist. The real artist listens for that which is well done, the person who knows nothing searches for the 'faults'."
(T. Carreño, quoting her 2nd Teacher, L.M.Gottschalk.)

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 12:14
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Let me get this straight. You don't post all of those "recordings" of yours to get critique? Why do you do it then? If you don't want responses from your posts, then they are just spam. Choose.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 13:45
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 554

I cannot comment on Fahl's rendition of Casella's Concerto, as he has banned my IP address from accessing his site (yes, really).  Of course, I could access it via a proxy server, but I'd rather honour his desire to keep me from listening to his music.

However, as to the quote he cited above, he is as guilty as anyone on this forum ever has been, "critiquing" music with alterior motives, not designed to be constructive, but rather to humble/embarrass/demean the hard work of others.  He did so recently with my clarinet concerto; he's done this numerous times with Guy Bacos, perhaps the single most proficient user of VSL libraries that exists (heck, his current signature line is a not so obvious dismissal of "demos" as trite/trivial compared to his masterpiece renditions of "real music.")  

To be fair, many of us, myself included, have responded to Fahl vociferously in kind.  Absent his ability to interact in a non-arrogant, self-agrandising way, many of us go out of our way to try to show him that he's not the be all, end all of musical knowledge and competence.  Nobody has ever been able to get through to him.  The more we argue, the more he comes back with a fiercer determination to prove everyone wrong. Sometimes, he does this heavy-handedly, other times, via subtle digs.  It's always obvious to anyone who has perused the history of his comments on this and other forums.

I think musicians in general are hyper-critical, especially if another musician even hints that they may be good at what they do (it seems, people are naturally inclined to attack confident individuals and bring them down a notch).  On another forum, I made the "mistake" of posting my orchestral piece, "What Will Become of Us" as an example of the use of Synchron Strings, to be met with a comment by Simon Ravyn:  "is this a joke?"  His subsequent comments, when people came to my defense was to suggest that the music was fine, while the rendition was seriously lacking.  Could he have been more tactful, especially since we had zero history together?  I think so, but I also understand that people have their own particular character, and way of expressing their thoughts.  While I don't know Simon's music, it's evident from the praise he's received from others, that he's excellent at what he does, and I'm sure his criticisms have value, if you can get past the force of his delivery.

The bottom line is this:  musicians are emotional, sensitive, and intelligent. When they put their work out there, they are ultimately subjecting themselves to reactions that may or may not make them feel good about their work.  However, when the conversation degenerates in to consistently negative, toxic, one-upmanship, such as many of Fahl's contributions on this forum, one must ask:  why keep posting your music in an environment that seemingly is not conducive to receiving it with the desired intent you wish?

Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 14:43
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

Let me get this straight. You don't post all of those "recordings" of yours to get critique? Why do you do it then? If you don't want responses from your posts, then they are just spam. Choose.

It is kind of striking, that you obvikously cant imagine that a productive musicians like many who post their music here just want to share what they are doing with the great VSL-Products just to pay a productive tribute to the great VSL company and inspire one another all who work with VSL ...and unless any of us musicians  explicitly ask for we do not expect that others try to reduce what ever they believe they cant hold back to do so.

(To be sure I chose the way you can personally accept to be talked to since you self talk that way) I just will quote yourself to indicate what this attempt to reduce the music of others looks like to me:

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post


It is just a classic case of "wanna be artist turned analyzer", like magazine music reviewers who were not good enough thus turned into critics.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 16:26
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

Let me get this straight. You don't post all of those "recordings" of yours to get critique? Why do you do it then? If you don't want responses from your posts, then they are just spam. Choose.

It is kind of striking, that you obvikously cant imagine that a productive musicians like many who post their music here just want to share what they are doing with the great VSL-Products just to pay a productive tribute to the great VSL company and inspire one another all who work with VSL. 

Fahl, I hate to break it to you, but you are posting your mock-ups/renderings-of-existing-music-composed-by-real-composers here, in the Synchron SAMPLE LIBRARY forum. This is not the "Show me your music for inspirational purposes" forum. This is VSL's sample library forum for discussing Synchron libraries, those that you are using for your renderings. So whether you like it or not, obviously your renderings are subject to critique when posted here.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 16:37
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Maybe you all should take a break from VSL tonight ... BTW I saw on their Website that the „friends from England“ are releasing tonight! And even if this new product should be no gamechanger it is (hopefully) worth a look/listening.

Break!

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 16:38
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Maybe you all should take a break from VSL tonight ... BTW I saw on their Website that the „friends from England“ are releasing tonight! And even if this new product should be no gamechanger it is (hopefully) worth a look/listening.

Break!

Yup, so many great things coming out from many developers these days. We are spoiled.

- Simon Ravn
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