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  • Special Edition to Cube

    G
    G

    Hello,

    I'm doing orchestration and most of my work is to be able to come up with a realistic orchestral mockup, that can possibly be played by a real orchestra.

    Here's my (very simple) workflow:
    - Logic Pro X: find ideas
    - Sibelius: import ideas from Logic Pro X and then write correctly / orchestrate them
    (- Logic Pro X: sometimes (quite rarely in fact) retrieve midi from Sibelius and re-work it)

    As you can see, working in Sibelius is absolutely mandatory.
    The more important is that what is written and played in Sibelius (through VSL) should be closed to what a real orchestra can and will play (dynamics, balance between parts of the orchestra, ...).

    To summarise, I would like something like NotePerformer but with a better sound :)

    It seems that VSL products are the closest possible to this point so I'd like some advices about possible upgrades for my configuration (please see my signature) for better sound/realism/to be closest to real orchestra.

    My idea is: upgrade from VSL Special Edition Bundle to VSL Symphonic Cube (my budget is limited to around 1500€, which is ok for upgrading to Cube from VSL SE).

    So here are my questions:
    1 - Do you have another opinion than getting VSL Symphonic Cube for doing realistic/well balanced orchestra mockups with Sibelius?
    2 - Will going from VSL SE Complete Bundle to VSL Cube really enhance sound rendering?
    3 - Are there more velocity layers in VSL Cube than in VSL SE? Especially for brass that sounds too brassy in VSL SE going from a mp to a mf dynamic...
    4 - Do all the instruments from VSL Symphonic Cube have soundsets for Sibelius?
    5 - Do I need to update something else (ex: MIRx to MIR24 or MIR Pro, or Vienna Suite to Pro) for a really better sound without too much tweaking?
    6 - Can VSL SE instruments not available in Symphonic Cube (Choirs for example) can mix "as-is" with other Symphonic Cube instruments?
    7 - Is there special price for upgrading to Synchron from Cube later on?

    Thanks for reading this (long) post, and thanks a lot for your answers!

    Best regards,
    Gil.
    -
    VSL:
    VI Special Edition Complete Bundle / VE Pro 6 / VI Pro 2 / MIRx Bundle / Vienna Suite

    EWQL:
    Symphonic Orchestra Platinum / Hollywood Orchestra Platinum / Symphonic Choirs Platinum / Hollywood Choirs Platinum / Play 6.0.9

    Sibelius 2018.12
    Sibelius EWQL Soundsets (http://www.soundsetproject.com/)
    NotePerformer 3.2
    Logic Pro X 10.4.3

    iMac 5k Core-i7 4GHz / macOS 10.13.6 /Ram: 32GB
  • K
    K

    Hi Gil, 

    1) I don’t use Sibelius, but the Cube is great and definitely the way to go if you are happy with the sound of the SE and want to improve the realism

    2) yes, you get many more articulations this way (e.g. fast legato) that will definitely improve the realism of your music (I guess you are talking about the Standard Version of the Cube? The full version has even much more to offer ...)

    3) yes, this is for me the most important difference. The SE only has 3 velocity layers - the Cube has mostly from 4 (Strings, some Winds) to 5-6 for key Woodwinds and Brass. Moreover, you get more variations (from 1-2 to typically 4) and chromatic instead of whole tone sampling.

    4) don’t know

    5) as far as I understand, MIR allows you to place instruments anywhere on stage and to include non-VSL instruments. If you have a pure VSL orchestra and are fine with the standard positions, MIRx is just great.

    6) yes

    7) not sure what exactly you mean with “Synchron”. The VSL team had promised that there will by a Synchron MIRx extension with which you could use all VI instruments in the Synchron hall (just as any other venue in the MIRx bundle) - I would guess you can just upgrade your bundle once this is released. If you talk about the new Synchron Series instruments, there are no winds, yet, and the strings are still missing many key articulations compared to what the Cube has to offer.

    By the way, I don’t fully understand your current approach: it would be far more natural to move the project from Sibelius back to Logic and finish it there. This allows you to shape the playback by additional continuous controllers, like velocity crossfade, since this brings the music to life - and even the Cube might not improve too much if you skip this crucial step. In this context you might also be interested in this:

    www.articulate-preset.com

    Best regards

    Kai
  • G
    G

    Hello Kai,

    Thanks for your quick answer!

    Yes you're right about the point 2, I was talking about the Standard Version of the Cube.

    Concerning point 7, I was wondering if I'll buy Symphonic Cube Standard, there will be a discount on a new "Synchron Cube" or something similar :)

    I understand your approach and you're absolutely right for making great mockups!
    But for me the most important thing is to be able to have Sibelius as the core of my rendering workflow, because in my case score rendering is more important than having a top notch mockup with what we can with a DAW. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough...
    For example I want to be able to change a piano to mezzo piano and hear if it sounds better (not to change velocity from 48 to 64 because it doesn't mean anything in certain context).

    Thanks for the link!

    Regards,

    Gil.
  • K
    K
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Gil,

    The Synchron Line represents a different approach where the natural reverb in the fixed Synchron Stage venue is directly recorded with multiple microphones. This could improve the realism but you loose a lot of flexibility compared to dry recordings (and need far more resources). Therefore, I don’t think that the Synchron Line is meant as a replacement for the Cube or that there will be an upgrade at some point. (This is surely a matter of taste, but I own Synchron Strings and still prefer the sound of the VI libraries)

    I understand that you are mainly interested in the score. Yet, a potential upgrade to the Cube obviously concerns the playback. I fully agree that controller or velocity numbers are not very musical 😊. However, the notes alone don’t fully determine the music. For basically every famous orchestral work you will find dozens of recordings that sound very different, even though they are based on the same score 
 and additional controllers allow you to specify how the notes are played. For instance for sustained notes the use of velocity crossfade makes a note “breathe” via subtle dynamic transitions that can significantly add to the realism. 

    That said, there are several cases where the Cube should also increase the realism when you use it in Sibelius:

    - the additional velocity layers will give you more appropriate dynamic levels, e.g. a realistic piano/pianissimo (many of the SE versions lack the softer end)

    - the different variations are automatically chosen whenever you repeat notes

    - speed control in VI pro can automatically choose the right legato version depending on the playing speed

    - for many winds there are different vibrato versions and I would guess that you can select them somehow in Sibelius

    Hope this helps 

    Kai
  • J
    J

    Regarding Question 5.  I don't know about the MIR products but you can try Vienna Suite with a free demo license.